Damaged Veritas Bench Chisel Handle

[Rafael Herrera]

A lot of chisels with other branding have come my way with leather caps.

Craftsman chisels are the only ones for which an image can be found at the moment.

The leather often had a hole in the center and was fitted over a dowel. This tended to keep the wood from mushrooming at the top of the chisel.

Yeah, those look like their chrome plated offerings. I've a couple of those chisels, but no handles. At some point Craftsman's chisels were made by Greenlee, apparently good quality.

The leather caps are like washers in the Stanley handles, I've a few of those with original handles. That seems to be the design.

I've plenty of older chisels with no leather cap that appear to have seen plenty of use, mushrooming is not an issue I've noted.

Rafael

[Edward Weber]

Hitting a bench chisel with a hammer, unless it's metal capped or hooped, is a terrible practice.

Observing what was offered by manufacturers of the past, when these tools were more widely used, can be give us clues as to what was the state of the art at the time.

As can be noted in the catalog and any other catalog you can find online, the hoops were reserved for heavy duty chisels.

Here's another reference, https://williammarplesandsons.com/chisels/, none of their handles had leather caps. They did offer hooped handles, though.

I may be mistaken, but the only handles I've seen with leather caps are the Stanley 7xx types. If you ask me, more of a gimmick than an improvement.

Heavy malleting will eventually crush the fibers of any handle, the hoop will mitigate that.

Rafael

So in your opinion, is the leather cap A. state of the art for the time
OR B. more of a gimmick than an improvement?
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
From your link.
f54be4e9e9a75ed6185b8d2b92a38172.jpeg
Leather tipped handles


I have dozens of chisels for different manufacturers with leather caps, this was common 100 years ago.
IMG_0720 (600 x 400).jpgIMG_0721 (600 x 400).jpgIMG_0722 (600 x 400).jpg

As to the OP's chisel.
From Veritas;
"Care and Maintenance
While these chisels have been made as robust as possible, it should still be understood that
the narrow blades are relatively fragile. These chisels should not be used for levering waste
out of a joint. Also, when used for chopping work, a lighter mallet should be used"

This is what I've been saying all along.

[John Lanciani]

Attachment 505697

This didn't happen with one mallet blow, that handle gave you fair warning well before it gave up the ghost. This isn't a Lee Valley problem, it is user error.

[Jim Koepke]

This didn't happen with one mallet blow, that handle gave you fair warning well before it gave up the ghost. This isn't a Lee Valley problem, it is user error.

One thing that avails a user of some great chisels at bargain prices (at least it used to) is being able to make your own handles.

In my case an old hand injury makes it more comfortable to use handles of my own making.

It also allows one to make handles out of strong woods or whatever exotic wood they may choose.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

So in your opinion, is the leather cap A. state of the art for the time
OR B. more of a gimmick than an improvement?
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
From your link.
f54be4e9e9a75ed6185b8d2b92a38172.jpeg
Leather tipped handles

That page is from their 1954 catalog. Rather late in the game. The page with their handle models is from 1903.

I'm familiar with the Stanley 7xx chisels, which came with leather capped handles. I looked at the Stanley catalogs over time. They released their steel capped "everlasting" chisels in 1911, there are other chisels models released over time, but I don't see the 7xx models before the catalog from 1940. Was it around 1940 when they were released?

I also found leather capped handles in a Pexto catalog from 1920, you paid extra for the leather capped handles.

I have dozens of chisels for different manufacturers with leather caps, this was common 100 years ago.
IMG_0720 (600 x 400).jpgIMG_0721 (600 x 400).jpgIMG_0722 (600 x 400).jpg

For at least all of the 18th and 19th century they got along fine without adding leather caps. They seem to have been offered commercially beginning in the early 20th century.

I'm not denying these handles existed, but your assertion that those chisels without hoops were fitted with leather caps is not accurate. There were plenty of chisels without them. Was it a gimmick? probably, 19th century chisels don't have them.

Rafael

[JOEL MONGEON]

when used for chopping work, a lighter mallet should be used"

This made me curious, so I took my kitchen scales to weigh all of my mallets.

My Veritas Journeyman's brass Mallet: 11.4oz
My walnut Mallet I made: 13.6oz
Carpenter's Mallet: 1lb 1.1oz
Carver's Mallet: 1lb 7.8oz

Out of all 4 mallets I own it's the 2 lightest ones that damaged my handles

I digress, I think John was right. Wrong tool for the task.

When I return the damaged Veritas chisel I'll pick up a few other chisels from other manufacturers to try out. In particular I'm looking at the standard Narex bench chisels and the Hirsch firmer chisels. They both have hooped handles.

[Cameron Wood]

Some chisels are designed to take a beating and last a long time.

IMG_4374.jpg

[Reed Gray]

I watched some video about the Japanese chisels and setting one up. The worker took the top ring/ferule off of the chisel, deepened the tenon 1/8 inch or so, put the ring back on and peened the exposed part of the tenon over the top of the ring. You could glue the split pieces together again. I found out you can use a compressor, on light pressure, to blow the glue all the way through the split. Some times you can just blow it through with your own lung power.

robo hippy

[Edward Weber]

That page is from their 1954 catalog. Rather late in the game. The page with their handle models is from 1903.

I'm familiar with the Stanley 7xx chisels, which came with leather capped handles. I looked at the Stanley catalogs over time. They released their steel capped "everlasting" chisels in 1911, there are other chisels models released over time, but I don't see the 7xx models before the catalog from 1940. Was it around 1940 when they were released?

I also found leather capped handles in a Pexto catalog from 1920, you paid extra for the leather capped handles.



For at least all of the 18th and 19th century they got along fine without adding leather caps. They seem to have been offered commercially beginning in the early 20th century.

I'm not denying these handles existed, but your assertion that those chisels without hoops were fitted with leather caps is not accurate. There were plenty of chisels without them. Was it a gimmick? probably, 19th century chisels don't have them.

Rafael

I never said it was an either/or type of situation,
What I said was;
"Even the old chisels that did not have a metal hoop, often have a leather hoop/cap to cushion the blow."

I was simply pointing out, that there was often a desire and then a method of protecting the handles from damage. I'm well aware that there are chisels with no hoops or other accessories on them.
A handle with a leather cap is much less likely to take damage when struck than one without.

In my collection, out of all the old chisel handles that survived, the ones with leather caps outnumber the handles without, by far.
Not scientific just personal observation.

So your comment "For at least all of the 18th and 19th century they got along fine without adding leather caps."
I'm sure they did, when a handle split or broke, they replaced it, just as I would.
At some point, one of the old manufacturers decided to do something in a effort to try and keep their handles from splitting. Leather caps, hoops, plastics and so on.

There is no way to tell how much use a handle in good condition has had over it's lifetime. The only thing you can tell of a handle is if it's worn, abused or broken.
The OP's handle proves this

[Jim Koepke]

These are some old chisel handles that ended up being sold on ebay.

Chisel Handles.jpg

The leather looks to perform a function similar to a metal hoop. The dowel in the center appears mushroomed on some of these.

One of my oldest chisels is a mortise chisel. It had a leather washer between the wood and the disk bolster.

Newbould Mortise Chisel.jpg

The right up on this chisel follows:

The chisel has a cutting edge of 3/8" and is stamped NEWBOULD, a mark used by Samuel Newbould. He is listed as an "edgetool maker" on Sheffield Moor in the Directory of Sheffield for 1787. This example has two early features. The bolster where the blade enters the handle is not the integral, faceted one that is usual; instead, there is a disk that the blade passes through and a very heavy, hand forged ferrule behind it (see photo). The disk is like that on a Samurai sword. The other early feature is that the chisel has a steel edge welded to an iron backbone, much like early axes. The steel will hold an edge much longer than iron, but wrought iron is tougher and less brittle for the body of a tool. The line between the steel and iron can be seen along the edge of the NEWBOULD blade (see photo).

jtk

[JOEL MONGEON]

Just thought I would wrap up this thread with an update.

My 1" Veritas replacement chisel came in the mail yesterday. So this morning I brought the damaged one back to Lee Valley and came home with a medley of chisels to try out.

20230809_102547.jpg

I'll keep the Veritas nice and sharp but for delicate work and will sharpen my new friends and continue working on my outdoor bench with them.

Thanks for all the replies.

[Warren Mickley]

I talked to some Lee Valley people when these chisels were being designed a dozen years ago. I thought the handles would be brittle and I told them so. I’m surprised there haven’t been more problems. Traditional woods are beech, ash, and hornbeam.

We have used chisels with no hoops for centuries. In the 18th century hoops were found on carpenter chisels. There is no problem using a 30 ounce mallet on a chisel with no hoop.

Roubo shows a mallet with a 3x4x7 head, probably heavier than 30 ounces. He mention ash and hornbeam for chisel handles.

[Jim Koepke]

Traditional woods are beech, ash, and hornbeam.

There may be another tradition at play here. Are you familiar with the Canadian flag?

Flag of Canada.png

Ever consider what may be the most plentyful hardwood in the Veritas backyard?

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

I talked to some Lee Valley people when these chisels were being designed a dozen years ago. I thought the handles would be brittle and I told them so. I’m surprised there haven’t been more problems. ....

Actually, Warren, that is incorrect. While overdone baking of wood can weaken the result, correctly done (lighter baking) there is no loss of strength. The reason for torrifying wood (and Maple, since it is Canadian) is that it adds greater stability and waterproofing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edward Weber]

Actually, Warren, that is incorrect. While overdone baking of wood can weaken the result, correctly done (lighter baking) there is no loss of strength. The reason for torrifying wood (and Maple, since it is Canadian) is that it adds greater stability and waterproofing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, I agree that technically you're correct BUT
The side effect to the stability and water resistance is increased brittleness.
This is fine in many situations but when used as a handle that will be struck repeatedly, iy's ill advised.
A chisel handle needs to direct the force of the blow and somewhat absorb a portion of the shock. (anyone who has used a solid steel framing chisel can appreciate this) Example.
This is done in many ways, leather washers, different wood species, composites, etc.
A brittle handle has much less of an ability to absorb the shock (energy) and as a result it can split, as this post illustrates.