Damaged Veritas Bench Chisel Handle

[Kent A Bathurst]

Yeah, well....... Not many whacks with my Japanese hammer, and a slab sheared off the side of my LV 1/2" butt chisel. Then continued for not many more whacks and the end destructed entirely. Got a hoop from somewhere [forget] and fitted it. All good. Whack away.

The torrefied maple did seem a bit fragile, but that's not on them - on me. Only LV chisel I have. Only one I will have - don't want to deal with that issue - again, it's on me, not on them.

At the same time - endless whacks, same hammer, on my L-N "Maine-harvested Hornbeam" bench [2 of them] and mortise [3 of them] have dented the handle ends, but no more. Been at these for long, long time. My 10+ oak hooped Japanese are, like, indestructible over a few decades.

Again - it is what it is. I wanted to try the butt chisel style. It does what I had hoped for, and I'm satisfied with the money I spent. I'm fine. I learned.

Yeah, yeah - don't bother to say it - shoulda used a wooden mallet. Had 2, sold them, the heck with that.

LV Chisel.jpg

[JOEL MONGEON]

It happened again. Bummer
20230802_114919.jpg
Since my last post I bought a 1" PMV 11 chisel from Lee Valley. I've only ever used it with my wooden mallet but had another sad incident today.
I'm making an outdoor natural edge bench out of a walnut slab and I'm in the process of fitting it over a large armor stone slab. After removing some material I was about to put everything away for the day when I noticed the handle on my 1" chisel completely split.
I'll take this one back to Lee Valley and maybe give Narex chisels a try next. It's a bummer as I really like the feel of these but what's the point if I can't use them. Are they only for final finessing whithout a mallet?

[Edward Weber]

I don't want to sound like a broken record BUT
You're striking a tanged chisel with no hoop or ferrule. I honestly would be surprised if it didn't crack.
With every strike you're driving the handle over the tang and into the shoulder. If there is no hoop and/or ferrule to restrain the wood, it will split.
I think you might want to try a different style of chisel than the one you are currently using.
Something with a hoop, like a framing chisel, possibly a socket style.
Just suggestions for you to consider.
Good luck

[Phil Gaudio]

I don't want to sound like a broken record BUT
You're striking a tanged chisel with no hoop or ferrule. I honestly would be surprised if it didn't crack.
With every strike you're driving the handle over the tang and into the shoulder. If there is no hoop and/or ferrule to restrain the wood, it will split.
I think you might want to try a different style of chisel than the one you are currently using.
Something with a hoop, like a framing chisel, possibly a socket style.
Just suggestions for you to consider.
Good luck

Edward: that was my thought exactly until I looked into how these chisels are assembled. It seems to incorporate both a tang and a socket. That detail that looks like a ferule is actually a socket that transfers the force from the handle to a shoulder at the top of the blade outboard of the tang. It would seem to me that the only way that you would get handle splitting is if the hole for the tang were too short, allowing the ferule to travel upward in the handle, or if the fit between the socket and handle was too loose, again allowing the tang to travel into the handle. I base this on a quick glance at my Veritas mortise chisel: assume same construction? Phil

[Mike Henderson]

I teach a class on dovetails and use the Lee Valley chisels in the class. Also some Lie Nielsen chisels that I made handles for. The students wack the heck out of them them with wooden mallets that I provide. Never had a Lee Valley chisel handle problem.

Mike

[The handle attachment method used on the Veritas chisels is essentially the same as Japanese chisels.]

[JOEL MONGEON]

I don't want to sound like a broken record BUT

No worries Edward. There were 2 possible issues that were suggested. One was using a brass mallet on a wooden handle and the other was the handle itself. I decided to try a wooden mallet as suggested and see if that made things better. After this morning I think you are right and I'll be looking at different chisels with a ferrule or hoop.
Thanks

[Jim Koepke]

It happened again. Bummer
20230802_114919.jpg
Since my last post I bought a 1" PMV 11 chisel from Lee Valley. I've only ever used it with my wooden mallet but had another sad incident today.
I'm making an outdoor natural edge bench out of a walnut slab and I'm in the process of fitting it over a large armor stone slab. After removing some material I was about to put everything away for the day when I noticed the handle on my 1" chisel completely split.
I'll take this one back to Lee Valley and maybe give Narex chisels a try next. It's a bummer as I really like the feel of these but what's the point if I can't use them. Are they only for final finessing whithout a mallet?

Trying to determine the cause without being where it happened when it happened is fraught with so many unknowns.

This is possibly one of the better reasons why there are multiple types of chisels in my shop.

For heavy stock removal, like mortising or whacking out unwanted wood, there are heavier chisels.

Gonna Need a Bigger Chisel.jpg

Notice the waste around the work. Most of it is like thick shavings, only a few fat chunks were taken out to start the mortise. The work can go quicker with two or three thin shavings than trying to pound one's way through fat 1/4 inch shavings.

The handle is ash on this 3/4" chisel, if my memory is working. Ash can take a good whacking.

The bevel on my chisels that shall be whacked is also a bit steeper than the bevel on my paring chisels.

e Paring to the Line.jpg

If my paring chisels are ever struck with a mallet, it is a light tap, not a heavy whack.

Also if a chisel needs a heavy whack to cut, it may be the edge isn't sharp or the bevel angle may be too steep.

jtk

[Edward Weber]

Edward: that was my thought exactly until I looked into how these chisels are assembled. It seems to incorporate both a tang and a socket. That detail that looks like a ferule is actually a socket that transfers the force from the handle to a shoulder at the top of the blade outboard of the tang. It would seem to me that the only way that you would get handle splitting is if the hole for the tang were too short, allowing the ferule to travel upward in the handle, or if the fit between the socket and handle was too loose, again allowing the tang to travel into the handle. I base this on a quick glance at my Veritas mortise chisel: assume same construction? Phil

Thanks
So if they are a hybrid as you mentioned, I would agree. I have made handles like you describe but have not had that issue.

There seems to been something in this equation that is missing. I can't understand the continued breaking of the handles. There is either a quality issue, a material issue or an operator issue.
I hope the OP keeps us in the loop, I would like to know what's really going on.

[Derek Cohen]

All my non-hooped chisel handles are only struck with a mallet with UHMW on the face ...



Steel faces are only used on hooped handles.



Never damaged a handle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

Or you’re trying to take too large a bite with each blow.

[JOEL MONGEON]

Thanks for the replies. I'd like to know what's going on as well. I still consider myself a beginner so I imagine it is something I am doing.

When I first got the chisel I flattened the back to a mirror finish and had just sharpened it before starting out yesterday. It still can cut walnut end grain nicely without effort. Although I realize it can always be sharper.
20230803_094907.jpg

I ended up grabbing my Sorby 1.5" framing chisel and IBC 1" bench chisel to continue my work. They both cut fine without issue.

20230802_230217.jpg

I was using the chisel outside yesterday and it rained overnight so the chips have swollen a bit but I picked some up and put them next to the chips I was cutting out with other chisels. Maybe Tony is right and I'm still taking too large of a bite with each blow.

20230803_094214.jpg

I went back to the Lee Valley page for this chisel and from the description it did not seem like their bench chisels are only for fine work. They mention the steel can handle heavy chopping cuts and the handles can resist chipping from glancing mallet blows. I'll see if I can replace the chisel and if I can I'll relegate the Veritas chisels to fine work and maybe pick up another framing chisel or Narex chisel for rougher work.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop...-bench-chisels

"This metal’s micro-structure makes it extremely durable, so it can withstand the impact of heavy chopping cuts without chipping or deforming as readily as other tool steels, even at bevel angles as low as 20°. Highly wear resistant, the edge typically lasts at least twice as long in use as an A2 blade before it needs sharpening"

"The blade and handle are connected with a tang and a socket-like stainless-steel ferrule that seats directly onto the shoulder of the blade. Flats on the handle prevent the chisel from rolling. Each chisel is superbly balanced, with the center of gravity close to the tang/socket connection."

"The hard maple handle has been torrefied, a heating process that changes the structure of the wood at the cellular level, stabilizing it against swelling and shrinkage caused by humidity changes. Contoured to fit the hand nicely, the handle has a domed end that resists chipping from glancing mallet blows."

Thanks

[JOEL MONGEON]

I guess what I'm asking is:
Am I an idiot for using a mallet with these chisels and I can use this as an expensive learning experience.
Or should I bring the chisel back to Lee Valley and see if I can get a refund or replacement?

[Derek Cohen]

Joel, it is a bit of both: I would contact LV, and I'm sure that they will replace the handle without a quibble. The handles should be able to manage a "reasonable" amount of wacking (as I mentioned above, I do not hit mine with steel). I will point out that I wack all my bench chisel handles - they are designed for this. However, those starting out may be unreasonable in how they determine what is reasonable wacking.

There is no doubt that some handles are more durable than others. However, a bench chisel is more than just a handle. It has a blade, balance and comfort, weight, steel type.

I have two sets of Veritas chisels: O1 with Maple (and a couple of pre-production with Bubinga) handles...



Also PM-V11 chisels with custom Ebony handles - which should not be as tough as the Maple, but all are wacked with mallets equally. Plus I have Blue Spruce dovetail chisels with African Blackwood handles. As I mentioned earlier, I have never damaged a chisel handle (and I do a fair amount of chopping with them).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edward Weber]

"The hard maple handle has been torrefied, a heating process that changes the structure of the wood at the cellular level, stabilizing it against swelling and shrinkage caused by humidity changes. Contoured to fit the hand nicely, the handle has a domed end that resists chipping from glancing mallet blows."

Thanks

IMO, Torrifying a chisel handle is somewhat foolish, I can't really see any benefit.
While it may stabilize the wood against humidity changes, it also makes it more brittle. Not a quality you want on a handle. Especially IF it's designed to be struck.

[Jim Koepke]

The handles on my egg pan and spatulas have been torrefied by accidentally leaving them in the oven.

jtk