220v Plugs

[John K Jordan]

I don’t know about 240v GFCI but my experience with two previous 120v VFD powered lathes is they would not work with GFIC - triggered every time the lathe was switched on. I had to remove the GFCI to use them.

JKJ

I was thankful with my new shop building project that my jurisdiction has not adopted the 2020 NEC. Interestingly, I think that the industry sees the writing on the wall as my panel has plug-on-neutral which reduced the cost of the 120v GFCI breakers noticeably. No pigtails required. I have not checked, but hopefully, there would be 240v GFCI breakers that can also leverage that plug-on-neutral which eliminates the pigtail.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, there are going to be issues like that sometimes, John. AFCI has similar issues with some tools, too.

[Kory Watson]

You said not gfci, but you should check with the AHJ in your area.
If your locale is using 2020 NEC, you may not have a choice on 3-wire or 4-wire.

Attachment 492105

If you must indeed have a gfci circuit, I think they are only made with a neutral pigtail.

Could you clarify what you mean by 3-wire or 4-wire? On a 240V GFCI, with what I would consider the most common amperage for a shop (20), you only need standard 12/2 cable. A neutral does not need to be plugged in on the load side, only the line (pigtail) needs to be bonded to the panel's neutral bar.

You are indeed correct on the 2020 NEC. I'm rewiring my garage at the moment, moving away from a 1970s sub panel. Among other upgrades, I'm required to install an electrode grounding system as well as GFCI on all circuits. AFCI isn't required yet, though.

<rant>

That said, it's been pretty expensive so far to do the rewire. $40 in ground rods, $60 to rent a drill to insert them 8ft into the ground, $500 in wire, $150 for the panel, $600+ for breakers (lots of circuits), expensive tamper-proof outlets since those are required for 120 and 240V circuits, $100 in various other materials like electrical boxes... It adds up.

I'm totally up for the NEC keeping us safe, but sometimes I worry it's making electrical unreasonably expensive each year. And why big box stores keep selling outlets that are no longer up to code, I don't understand.

<end rant>

[Jason Roehl]

I'm totally up for the NEC keeping us safe, but sometimes I worry it's making electrical unreasonably expensive each year. And why big box stores keep selling outlets that are no longer up to code, I don't understand.

<end rant>

The NEC is a private organization. If the code were perfect from the get-go, they would be irrelevant in short order. They make their money in publishing updated code, getting municipalities to adopt it, and electricians to have to buy the new publications every few years. But what they do is they drill down on risk. Many years ago, they deemed—and rightly so—knob-and-tube wiring to be unsafe. Probably prevented lots (millions) of electrocutions and fires as people moved away from that wiring approach. But, they keep going after the “most dangerous” installations, so now that they’ve vanquished the truly unsafe methods, they’re starting to go after things that are one-in-a-million freak accidents.

To be fair, I don’t have a problem with the NEC publishing updated “recommended methods.” I do have a bit of an issue with being told by AHJs telling me what I can and can’t do in my own home that was perfectly acceptable for the last 40 years, and suddenly isn’t.

[Justin Rapp]

Could you clarify what you mean by 3-wire or 4-wire? On a 240V GFCI, with what I would consider the most common amperage for a shop (20), you only need standard 12/2 cable. A neutral does not need to be plugged in on the load side, only the line (pigtail) needs to be bonded to the panel's neutral bar.

<end rant>

Kory,

There are 240v appliances and sometimes machines that require a 3 wire circuit. This is for cases where the control boards of the machine run on 120v and need a negative (typically white) wire. This is usually the case for appliances like an electric dryer or oven. Second, please be mindful about stating common amperages for a shop. In most cases, most machine 3hp and under for 240v is 20 and 12/2 cable. However but not all. My DC is 3hp and called for a 30amp circuit. A lot of machines that people are using require higher amp circuits due to the larger motor equipment people have been migrating too.

Justin

[Jim Becker]

Justin, I think you meant four wire for dual voltage, at least if you are including the ground. My CNC requires a four wire circuit so it uses L14-30 compared to the L6 gear everything else uses in my shop for 240v.

[Justin Rapp]

Justin, I think you meant four wire for dual voltage, at least if you are including the ground. My CNC requires a four wire circuit so it uses L14-30 compared to the L6 gear everything else uses in my shop for 240v.

Well yes, Kory mentioned 3 wire or 4 wire. I thought he was including ground which is why i asked for clarification. For me, 3 wire is white/black/red and ground. Four wire is white/black/red/blue and ground.

[Scott T Smith]

I use twist-lock's for the ceiling mounted receptacles, and standard 6 series for all of the wall receptacles. It's worked well for a long time.

Ceiling receptacles have 18' extension cords dropping down so that I can easily disconnect the equipment at floor level.

[Rollie Meyers]

Thomas Edison chose 110 Volts for his light bulbs. I think it was only in the 1930's before all the electric companies standardized to the higher 120/240 Volts thinking it would carry better through longer lines.

People who lived before the increase always referred to it as 110/220 and it has just carried over. I knew old electricians in the 1960's (I worked for one when I was 13 and 14 in Summers) who always called it 110 and 220 because that's what they grew up knowing.

It will require a lot of help from people calling it 120 and 240 to ever get past the 110/220 phase. Be one please. 220V is a European voltage.

220 volts is no longer a standard there, the EU standardized it as 230V, some countries like England (pre Brexit), & France were 415/240V, others were 380/220V, so they harmonized it as 400/230V.

[Rollie Meyers]

You said not gfci, but you should check with the AHJ in your area.
If your locale is using 2020 NEC, you may not have a choice on 3-wire or 4-wire.

Attachment 492105

If you must indeed have a gfci circuit, I think they are only made with a neutral pigtail.

The neutral pigtail on a 2 pole GFCI circuit breaker is needed for the function of the GFCI, a neutral is not required for the load, the GFCI requirements for HVAC equipment has been delayed due to the Schiff storm that happened when the equipment would not function on a GFCI protected circuit.

[Rollie Meyers]

Well yes, Kory mentioned 3 wire or 4 wire. I thought he was including ground which is why i asked for clarification. For me, 3 wire is white/black/red and ground. Four wire is white/black/red/blue and ground.

Your 3-wire is a 4 wire, & your 4-wire is a 5-wire, the 5-wire would be a 3Ø, 208Y/120V, or 480Y/277V, and for the Canadians, 600Y/347V.


th-1490850754.jpg

This is a 220 volt receptacle.

[Charlie Velasquez]

The neutral pigtail on a 2 pole GFCI circuit breaker is needed for the function of the GFCI, a neutral is not required for the load, the GFCI requirements for HVAC equipment has been delayed due to the Schiff storm that happened when the equipment would not function on a GFCI protected circuit.

Aha! That makes sense.

[Michael Drew]

If you are looking for quality receptacles, look for "hospital grade".

I would suggest running four conductors to the J-boxes that will house the receptacles. You do not need to use all four, but if you ever needed to - it's there and you will save yourself a ton of headaches and cash should you have need for one, and you did not run conduit to the box. And speaking of conduit, that should also be on the table. If you run conduit, you can buy roles of wire, which is significantly less costly that Romex (per foot).

[Justin Rapp]

Your 3-wire is a 4 wire, & your 4-wire is a 5-wire, the 5-wire would be a 3Ø, 208Y/120V, or 480Y/277V, and for the Canadians, 600Y/347V.


th-1490850754.jpg

This is a 220 volt receptacle.

It depends on what country you are in. In the US, we do not have this 220 volt receptacle. This however is a common receptacle across the pond. In the US, our wires are for example, 12/2, which really is a 3 wire cable, but classified a /2 for the non-ground wire. The extra wire is an unsheathed and only used for ground, therefore not part of the wire set used to carry voltage.

[andy bessette]

6-20R receptacles for me, except where more power is needed, such as welders, etc.