Admin Announcement - Please Read

[Matt Meiser]

You never see poltiical prisoners comming from the majority rulling faction do you?

We don't do politics.

But as the 1949 supreme court implemented the rule of the land for separation of chruch and state, so must SMC strive to keep a separation of corporate entity and state (SMC).

We don't do religion.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'm saying this with the utmost respect to everyone involved in this thread.

"go make some sawdust"

[Dev Emch]

We don't do politics.



We don't do religion.

Sorry Matt, I dont understand your replys. These two items were used as retorical analogies. Please re-read my post as you will see that the end game has indeed neither in the literal sense. And just as the path of literal intrepretation can lead us into damnation, so can a single ended policy that ignores opposing viewpoints.

[Keith Outten]

- Interpretation of the written word is an amazing thing, no matter what is written there will be those at both ends of the spectrum who will missinterpret the message.

- We couldn't find a professional to host SawMill Creek so I will have to do. I will occasionally make mistakes that affect the minority but rarely the majority. Our Administrator, Aaron Koehl, is qualified for his position here and I hope that his efforts somehow make up for any mistakes that I may make.

- Our goal of attracting businesses to The Creek will be controversial to some, to people like Tom Peterson and others who have received help resolving very important issues I expect it makes perfect sense. I have continually taken it on the chin as I have allowed Tormek, Grizzly, WoodCraft, EurekaZone and others to join and participate here, even in a limited capacity. The benefits are worth the price we have to pay every time one of our Members receives help with a serious problem. Clearly, in my mind, we will all benefit from the information and assitance we will receive from representatives of these and other companies.

- I will on occasion mention "Legal Issues" or "Legal Responsibilities" to remind everyone that you are personaly liable for every word you post publicly. If you are unsure of your personal liability please consult a legal professional, I am not qualified to give you advice in this area. I am also personally responsible for this forum and every word that exists here. Knowing that I take great risks to host this forum it is understandable that I would delete or edit anything I feel that could cause my familly financial or legal risks. Anyone who would like to share the legal liability is welcome to do so, please send me your Power of Attorney letter witnessed by a Notary and I will be glad to make you a SawMill Creek Administrator. When you assume personal responsibility for the content of our Forums I expect your interpretation of certain posts will change.

- I have chosen to respond rather than delete this thread or any of the messages that have been posted. I ask that everyone consider the majority here and not be so concerned with their personal interests when responding as I am still interested in your constructive comments concerning anything that involves the SawMill Creek Community.

- Once again I would like to remind everyone that if you make a public statement that anyone whould consider to be factual you better have the facts to back it up. If our Moderators or Administrators remove your message we probably are doing so in your (and my) best interests. You may disagree with our decision but it is better to err on the side of caution than to have even one of our Members ever experience a legal problem.

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[Matt Meiser]

I ask that everyone consider the majority here and not be so concerned with their personal interests when responding as I am still interested in your constructive comments concerning anything that involves the SawMill Creek Community.

Amen to that. Now lets get back to woodworking.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well Keith, you have my support 100%

I run my own business, and I understand the whole "liability" things. Others who punch a clock may or may not, opinions will vary

I've come to really like this place, thanks to you and the other admin who keep this place going.

Cheers!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Keith...thanks for all you, Jackie and Aaron and the moderators do! That's what separates SMC from most of the other boards....civility and respect. Don't change a thing and keep up the good work!

[Shelley Bolster]

Thanks Keith for the clear and concise response free of annoyance and frustration. Although some of us are childlike with our “playtime”, most behave like and thus appreciate being treated, as adults.
You explanation with regards to why you (administration/moderators) feel it necessary to delete or remove certain posts has satisfied several of my own personal concerns. Basically, if I am understanding you correctly, you personally fear a lawsuit filed over something a member might say. If, as you say, there is a real possibility for something like that occurring, then you are far braver than most that enjoy what freedom of speech we might display. That Keith, is pretty much what have several up in arms. (not all of course will post their fears regarding censorship issues on the open forum - many chose to discuss through PM and emails) Not knowing why certain items are being censored while others are not.
Many TV Networks make common practice of displaying a disclaimer…….something similar could perhaps be used here to try to make everyone responsible for their own actions/words…….not the administration of SMC. Companies need to be aware and agree to the right of the common person to have a reasonable degree of free speech and opinions.
Thanks again for allowing me to express mine.

[Keith Outten]

Thanks Shelley,

The owner of SawMill Creek does have a legal responsibility and there have been cases recently that involved lawsuits against those who host online forums. If we make a reasonable effort to remove that which violates a State or Federal law in most cases we would not be held responsible. If we allow any content to continue to be published after we are aware of its existance then we are just a guilty as the person who presented the message.

Members of SawMill Creek have the right to speak the truth, second and third hand knowledge is where people generally get into trouble...what they heard from a friend. As far as I know there never has been a legal issue with anyone who spoke the truth and could prove that what they said was factual. A statement like Company XYZ makes junk, without the facts to substantiate your comment is trouble. If you read Tom's post that I linked to above you can see that Tom listed the facts, he was upset but he listed the details and never made a general statement that was derogatory. Fortunately, Tom will receive help now. Shiraz works very fast and will make things right, I expect that a simple please would have received the same results but I doubt that Tom knew that Shiraz was a Member nor was he aware of his position at Grizzly.

I think for the most part we did cover this in our Terms of Service, here is an excerpt;

SawMill Creek Woodworkers Forums
Terms of Service (TOS)

I. General Terms

It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner best befitting the woodworking community at large. SawMill Creek is an online community where woodworkers may come together to share and discuss a common interest. SawMill Creek reserves the right to refuse or delete any Content of which it becomes aware and reasonably deems not to fulfill it's established purpose. In addition, SawMill Creek shall have the right (but not the obligation) in its sole discretion to edit, refuse or delete any Content that it reasonably considers to violate these Terms without notice. You understand and agree that the service is provided "AS-IS" and that SawMill Creek assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications.

Keith

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[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'd also like to point out that people like myself (in Japan) and Shelley, in Canada would be hard to "hit" for a law suit as SMC is in the US of A, so I think it is especially important to make sure you cover your be-hind.

Cheers!

PS, I'm not singling you out Shelley.

Cheers!

[Keith Outten]

The other side of my original message is common courtesy. This is what is expected here at SawMill Creek. If you start reading almost any thread the messages all have the same type of delivery...people are kind and courteous to each other. The friendly atmosphere here is one of the unique qualities of SMC and it is the reason that most of our Members register. As we move forward and are lucky enough to have more business representatives register I expect everyone to treat them with the same level of respect and friendliness that they do any other Member. They will be intelligent businessmen and women and they know that they are not to advertise their products. If you ask them a question expect an answer but remember that they will sometimes provide more information than you expect. Give them the benefit of the doubt and enjoy the fact that you had the unique ability to even speak to someone from that level of their management team and receive personal service. To most of us the large machines we purchase represent a major financial commitment, it sure is nice to know that there is at least one place where you can get help with a problem if all else fails.

These days when I call various companies I often get to talk to machines...press one for sales...you know the deal. If we can attract the decision makers to SMC we will have something of value, a relationship with the people who run the companies we purchase equipment from and professional advice concerning the machines they design and build. We should also never discount the value of their help when things go wrong. If I were in the market for a Festool sander there is only one person I would consider calling and that would be "Uncle Bob". The reason why is because he is a Member here and everyone knows that if there is any problem, no matter how small, Uncle Bob will take care of it right away. Anyone reading this message who doesn't know who Uncle Bob is use the search function and you will find him and a lot of very happy customers as well.

In order to attract these people to SMC all we have to do is be kind and couteous. Being rude even once will end their participation and we all lose. I hope that I have been able to express my feelings well enough for everyone to understand why this particular direction is important to everyone at SMC and what both sides have to gain in the long run.

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[Jim Becker]

Relative to Keith's recent reference to "Uncle Bob" (I "think" I coined that one...), it refers to Bob Marino. You won't find him in the directory as "Uncle Bob"...

[Randy Moore]

I'm saying this with the utmost respect to everyone involved in this thread.

"go make some sawdust"

Stu, I agree with you.
GO MAKE MORE SAWDUST, WOOD CHIPS OR SHAVINGS.

Randy

[Barry O'Mahony]

Today, I heard Fox news talking about how unpatriotic it is to not buy a US made automobile in lieu of the layoffs and issues happening at Ford and GMC these days.

LOL, so did thy tell you which was more unpatriotic, buying a GM made in Korea, or a Subaru made in Indiana? I always get confused.

So I gather, from this thread, that other threads have been deleted and/or moved? And I thought I was beginning to have "senior moments". Now the owners of this site may do whatever they wish, but personally I would appreciate posted notices in place of the deleted threads. This seems to be SOP on most other internet fora.

[Andy Hoyt]

....on most other internet fora.

Barry - Wouldn't that be ---- forae?