Admin Announcement - Please Read

[Keith Outten]

Where The Creek Flows

It is probably a good thing for me to remind everyone at least once every year that SawMill Creek exists only to provide a method for woodworkers to communicate. One simple goal, there obviously are other benefits such as the friendly atmosphere but the main reasons we are all members is to learn new skills and to share our knowledge.

Lately there have been various new threads that have had a tendency to bash a product or manufacturer for one reason or another and these tend to be more disruptive, less productive and inject a bit of unfriendly spirit into what is normally an upbeat kind of community. I would like to remind everyone that the reason we are able to enjoy our ability to speak freely here at SMC is that we are a self-supporting community. Without sponsors or advertising our position is unique in that we have the ability to communicate without fear of losing a sponsor and risking the loss of our community. Just because we are able to speak frankly doesn’t give us the right to criticize unfairly or to push our own views. Personal opinions are fine but they should never be given more weight than they deserve. Clearly everyone knows there are many ways to accomplish any goal, each woodworker must select from the equipment they own and the skills they possess as a first step to accomplishing any project. There is never a best way or technique that is the only option. Our mix of woodworkers here at SMC ranges from beginner to professional and this is reflected in the equipment they select as well as the materials they purchase.

One of our long-term goals is to attract the people that build the equipment we purchase to join SMC. This is not an easy task, traditionally online communities can be a tough crowd with quick tempers. We often present a very unattractive presence that is more often than not a source for very bad public relations. Corporations normally find it in their best interests to lurk frequently but never get involved. We have broken some ground in this area as we have been fortunate to have several managers from large companies join our community. The majority of our members accept this as a positive step and welcome these businessmen and women the same as any other member. Some have taken advantage and used this access to vent their frustrations which does more damage than good. Derogatory comments that are not substantiated by facts are selfish, immature and place our community in jeopardy of legal action. Show these people the same respect that you would any other member of SawMill Creek and we will all benefit from their participation.

We are a moderated community. This was decided, by our members, in the very first week of SawMill Creek’s existence. Every member of our community is a moderator and when they report a public post or thread that violates our Terms of Service or our community standards their report is taken seriously. In almost every case our members are more stringent than our Forum Moderators. This means that your peers here are responsible for the content of our Forums. Unlike many other woodworking forums SMC is for the most part governed by our members, not the administrative staff. Our Forum Moderators are woodworkers and members first, their administrative duties are generally very light since they have over six thousand pairs of eyes helping to keep things neat and tidy around the Creek.

We are serious about keeping SawMill Creek accessible to all woodworkers. This means that men, women and children are all welcome to visit or participate in any manner they are able. The value of the novice is equal to that of the Master Tradesman here. Those who ask questions are as integral to the process of learning as those who answer. Knowing that our membership includes woodworkers from all walks of life and from countries all over the world it is imperative that we sustain a certain level of mutual respect. Be kind, courteous and supportive of your peers and there will never be a war or loss of friendship within our woodworking community.

Sand, Turn, Hack or Saw…keep making sawdust and chips,

Keith Outten

[Jim Hager]

Well put. I'll try to stay in bounds.

[Bill Simmeth]

First, I want to reiterate the repect and admiration I have for the work that you, Aaron, Jackie, et al do in making this a premiere forum. Even with the occasional flare-ups it is a breath of fresh air compared to other venues for WW-related discussion!

My second comment deals with the thrust of your message:

One of our long-term goals is to attract the people that build the equipment we purchase to join SMC.

I think taken in the whole this is a terrific goal. The exchange of ideas and information with vendors is always helpful. However, the downside as I see it is two-fold:

1. Our forum becomes a surrogate or bypass for a vendor(s) established customer service mechanism. In other words, a forum member does not get satisfaction from or avoids a vendor's customer service dept and airs it out here, hoping that the resident manager/owner comes through. This seems to have become quite commomplace on "that other forum" and tends to invite the type of flaming that you are concerned about. In the long run, IMO, it is also detrimental to the development and growth of the vendor's CS operation. How are they supposed to improve if the boss always fixes the problems?

2. Our forum becomes an advertising venue for certain vendors. There is certainly a fine line here. Just participating, in and of itself, is a form of advertising. But, there is that intangible point that gets crossed where some members start feeling they are being "solicited". We've been through that at least once already and it too creates the type of hostilities we'd rather not see.

I guess my point is that vendors should be encouraged to participate, but that they, too, be held to a standard of conduct. Perhaps it is considered obvious and self-policing, but I think stated policies are always easier to enforce...

Thanks again for a great place to visit!

[Gord Taylor]

Very well put, Sir
Thanks for a very interesting place to visit.
G

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well I'm fairly new here, and I just want to say that I really find this place a nice bright bit of fresh air.

I've bounced around on some other WW forums, and I was amazed at the things that went on in some of them, dumbstruck, but here at SMC, I've yet to see anything that even comes close to some of the stuff that seems an everyday occurrence over there.

I've been online on various forums since 1996-97, one of which I'm still on and have many good friends at.

One thing that I've learned, is that I will never, NEVER say anything online that I would not say to the person's face, in front of a group of friends. I've found this standard to be a very good one, and one that keeps me on the straight and narrow, and enjoying this, and other forums.

Now when do we get to contribute again...?

Feb 1st? is that PST or what?

Cheers!

[Ken Garlock]

Thanks for the reminder. A refresher course in good manners is needed from time to time.

I am the type of person that says what I think, and on occasion I write posts that are less that I am thinking. Some times just I just walk away from the computer and cool off for a while. Thankfully, that almost never happens here at SMC.

I think that manufacturer rep participation would be good, with the understanding of all involved that they are not a customer service interface. Helpful hints great, taking inputs for product changes/upgrades great, but my xxx is broken, NO.

A big thanks you all of you behind the scenes that keep this place up and running.

[Glenn Clabo]

Thank you for all that you do Keith...
This continues to be a comfortable place to be...even after all these years of growth and attempts to distrupt. That is a tough thing to do these days with the ever widening access to all that is called the internet. It's been as much fun to watch as it has been to take part in.

[Mark Singer]

Keith,
Well stated...If some of the members were as excited about their work as they are about which brand of tool is better or where its made, we might start seeing better work on SMC....or from some members any work at all would be welcome

[Keith Outten]

I guess my point is that vendors should be encouraged to participate, but that they, too, be held to a standard of conduct. Perhaps it is considered obvious and self-policing, but I think stated policies are always easier to enforce...

Bill,

Thanks for your insight, you have given me some food for thought and I will discuss the idea of some kind of policy for those who represent a business interest. This does make things a bit more difficult but we should be able to negotiate some kind of system that works for all involved. The benefits of an open relationship with the business world outweigh the risks, woodworkers will surely receive the best end of the deal.

This is not a change in our policy concerning advertising. We are not inviting commercial interests to advertise at SawMill Creek but we are looking for a means of having civilized communications that will benefit all parties. Rather than dropping the idea because it is difficult to manage we should try and be innovative because there is so much to gain.

Thanks,

Keith

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[John Bailey]

Stu,

February 1st, 12:01 Eastern Standard Time. Wait for the thread "2006 Contributions, NOW!!" First responder gets a cool trophy by Andy Hoyt and the next 249 get bragging rights. You're going to have to figure out when that is for you, I've already screwed up the International Dateline once and will not accept any responsibility for what day you are in.

John

[Bob Noles]

Keith,

Your message re-states exactly why I am a proud member and contributor to this forum. I hope you never back down on enforcement of these beliefs.

[Lee DeRaud]

Uh, am I the only one who has trouble with the phrase "enforcement of beliefs"?

[Steve Clardy]

Thanks for the reminder. Well put!!

[John Shuk]

Uh, am I the only one who has trouble with the phrase "enforcement of beliefs"?

Lets try not to get hung up on semantics. I don't think anyone is trying to impose a religion on us here. Just some common sense pointers on how to keep this place viable.
Thanks Keith.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for your insight, you have given me some food for thought and I will discuss the idea of some kind of policy for those who represent a business interest. This does make things a bit more difficult but we should be able to negotiate some kind of system that works for all involved. The benefits of an open relationship with the business world outweigh the risks, woodworkers will surely receive the best end of the deal.

This is not a change in our policy concerning advertising. We are not inviting commercial interests to advertise at SawMill Creek but we are looking for a means of having civilized communications that will benefit all parties. Rather than dropping the idea because it is difficult to manage we should try and be innovative because there is so much to gain.

I agree with this totally, Keith. There is a productive and beneficial place for dialog that includes vendors and manufacturers along with all of us who are the consumers. It bridges the gaps where misinformation flourishes and is good for consumers and the businesses that service them. I know at least one vendor that has wanted to comment, but has held back to avoid improper appearances, despite encouraging them to join in the conversation. And those that have been participating largely have done so in an appropriate manner.

We have a pretty simple set of guidlines for SMC members and their interaction and there is no reason that we can't incorporate a few additional and equally simple guidlines for our manufacturer and vendor members. And I used the word, "members" on purpose.