Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 57

Thread: I sent this morticing jig to Paul Sellers ...

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,090
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    My guess is shortly after the first chisel was made, someone came up with a way to keep it straight in use.

    jtk
    Some woodworker held a chisel to a block with his fingers. Shared it with his friends. Today itís called a plane. That woodworker never got royalties for it because many claimed it for themselves.😀
    Jim

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    Some woodworker held a chisel to a block with his fingers. Shared it with his friends. Today itís called a plane. That woodworker never got royalties for it because many claimed it for themselves.
    Jim
    I agree with you,
    And what we refer to as a plane today is nothing more than a jig that holds the blade securely at the desired angle. It started as a simple jig and, over time, developed into a standard woodworking tool.
    Those who think jigs are somehow hindering skill development are incorrect IMO
    The development of a jig to make a job easier, more consistent or safer, teaches you more about the task than simply performing it "freehand".

    Some caveman or Neanderthal though he would put a rock at the end of a stick, and it would work better, A simple jig to hold a rock is now a hammer.

    Jigs often develop into tools, dismissing them or disregarding them as hindering skill or, as some say, cheating, is ridiculous.
    JMO

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Clarks Summit PA
    Posts
    1,482
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Weber View Post

    Jigs often develop into tools, dismissing them or disregarding them as hindering skill or, as some say, cheating, is ridiculous.
    JMO
    Ed, I respect your opinion. It is a complicated discussion. In my experience, I began mortising with a mortise chisel many years ago. The mortises were not pretty,
    but with a little bit of cleanup, the joints fit and they have lasted years. When I increased my time in the shop, I had 50 mortises to chop for a king sized bed. I wacked the mortising chisel with reckless abandon. The piece was placed over the leg of the bench, and I faced it straight on. All the joints came together nicely. I would not be able to use a jig that made me unable to face my piece squarely. I now have confidence that I can mortise without a jig. And in Neanderland that sense of freedom is sweet. But I have used jigs on occasion and they can be valuable. But they can hinder skill development and keep one timid about certain hand tool techniques. JMO

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom - Devon
    Posts
    491
    I seem to recall Kees having photos of some mortice chisels that are narrower at the top. I'm pretty sure my old OBM chisels are bias that way.

    Those jigs work well with modern bench chisels though. I might have to try one.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    25,828
    Blog Entries
    1
    For me whacking a mortise chisel to make a mortise is easier than drilling and trying to clean out what is left. With the set up Derek has shared, the clean up may be much easier and faster than my past attempts at making a mortise by drilling and cleaning out the waste.

    Some shop fixtures are found to be helpful, some are found to be not so helpful.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Camarillo, CA
    Posts
    296
    I agree with the earlier post - Paul Sellers isn’t selling his jigs, he just shows how to make them.

    I’ve made a jig based on his design once or twice when I was getting the hang of chopping mortises. I think it helped me get a sense of chopping square. After a couple of times I switched to chopping without a jig. I’d set the piece on top of the bench so I could sight down it and I would set a square next to it to give myself another reference.

    Now I don’t typically set a square up, but if I was making a big door and wanted extra precision I might do so. Who knows, I might even make another jig if it was for something really critical.

    One of things I like about hand tool work is that jigs aren’t necessary, but I can understand why people would want them in certain situations.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    8,770
    I mentioned earlier that I build jigs out of curiosity, and do not use them. I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I would like as many as possible to develop the hand skills to go without a jig. What I do not like is when a jig is used without an effort to do so.

    Jigs can aid in developing hand skills. Two examples come to mind:

    The first is Rob Cosman’s guide for sharpening. This is a triangle of some material (UHMW?) one leans the blade against when working a stone. After a while, the angle becomes familiar.

    The second example is my own experience when learning to cut dovetails about 25 years ago. My curse is that I can get spatially challenged. That is, I can get it back-to-front until I have run through it a few times. So I started out with the Veritas dovetail guide (and pull saw). That helped to get to the point where “I got it!”. I sold or gave away the guide and moved on the free hand only.

    There are some jigs which are needed regardless of how good one is. An example of this is when paring or planing the mitre for mitred dovetails. Close is not good enough.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 11-26-2022 at 8:08 PM.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    7,562
    I didn't even think about how hard it was to get this almost impossible to find 20' long piece of wood.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,090
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    I didn't even think about how hard it was to get this almost impossible to find 20' long piece of wood.
    Workmanship of risk???
    Jim
    Last edited by James Pallas; 11-27-2022 at 12:07 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,090
    I think that some jigs and appliances were invented by experienced journeymen out of frustration in trying to train apprentices in the aftermath of long apprentice programs. The days of training an apprentice slowly until skills were mastered were gone. I didn’t spend 7 years learning. More like 7 weeks. Yet I can still hear that voice calling from an adjoining room “That saw sounds like a flag in a hurricane, straighten your stance”. Or, “You couldn’t chop straight if I put a gunsight on that chisel”.
    Jim
    Last edited by James Pallas; 11-27-2022 at 12:07 PM.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    I mentioned earlier that I build jigs out of curiosity, and do not use them. I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I would like as many as possible to develop the hand skills to go without a jig. What I do not like is when a jig is used without an effort to do so.

    Derek
    I know this will sound harsh, and I don't mean it that way, but that sounds a bit "elitist" to me.

    Only if you're striving to better your skills can you use a jig?
    You can't use one just to get the job completed to a higher level of quality than you would free hand?
    Jigs are not solely crutches for lazy woodworkers, as I mentioned earlier. You seem to advocate only using them until you grow out of them. Not every jig is designed to be used in that way. Yes, overtime you can develop your skills to where some types of jigs are no longer necessary to you, but the truth is, not everyone can or needs to abandon them all together.

    Somehow, this perception that doing everything "freehand" is the best or purest way to work wood and any use of jigs is lesser in some way, is simply flawed, it's just a rudimentary method of work.
    As I said earlier, even the simplest tools evolved from basic jigs, hammers, chisels, planes and so on. Jigs are how woodworking evolves.
    If there were no jigs, there would be no tools.
    JMHO

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    8,770
    Edward, I think that you have misunderstood my comment … or I did not explain myself well enough.

    I have and use many fixtures and jigs. These are not training wheels: shooting boards, mitre guides for paring, mitre saws .. and there are the powered versions: router table, slider tablesaw, bench grinder ..

    Fixtures and jigs are an inevitable part of the workshop. At the same time, I want to develop my hand skills. I do not want to use guides where it is not necessary. This is my personal choice. Not everyone feels this way. Some jigs are good to point you down the road, such as a dovetail guide. Some prefer to stop there. Others move on. It is a big world we live in. I can only share what I do and prefer. I try not to prescribe to others.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,090
    I didnít get the impression that Derek was being ďelitistĒ in what he wrote. He would have no reason to post the jigs he makes for everyone to use. My own thoughts are use jigs if you find them useful. For myself I learned cutting mortises and tenons without jigs. Some were rough at first but fit well. Now they are easy everyday work like sawing to a line. No jigs, no router planes, a little chisel work at most. That goes for many things that guides are made to for. Use them if you like or feel a need. You donít have to make excuses for doing so either. But Iím no elitist because I donít use jigs for many operations. I have some pieces and my family have pieces that I made that are 50 years old and doing just fine.
    Jim
    Last edited by James Pallas; 11-27-2022 at 11:13 PM.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    11,161
    Well, since Paul did not feel the NEED to comment about what he might have thought as merely either Junk Mail, or a Spammer...he simply did the same thing I would have done...and deleted it.

    Apparently that thread was all about how Paul does his own Mortise work...and NOT about what others might be using....nor did he ask for such "advise".....

    However, the simplest mortise guide..is just a block of wood. Square end, clamp it to the part at the start of the mortise....can be also used at the stop line....or would that be too much like the way the Japanese chop their mortises...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    8,770
    Thanks so much, Steven. We can always count on you for your words of wisdom.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •