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Thread: I did a really crappy job of this help?

  1. #1
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    I did a really crappy job of this help?

    This is a walnut powder stain in water. I put to much on in spots and have a very uneven finish. Large pieces like this it dries so quick. Anyway looking for suggestions on how to even this out? After this coat I apply a shellac sealer, then an oil based stain which should help even it out, but not this much I am guessing.

    1. Go over it with a damp rag?
    2. Thin some stain down and re-stain the complete piece?

    Appreciate any help.

    Brian

    FB stain.jpg
    Brian

  2. #2
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    It looks pretty good except for the stile/rail intersections. That shouldn't happen if you put the dye on wet and then wipe it off while it's still wet. So is it because you didn't put it on wet and wiped the dye both ways over those areas, or is it because you sanded across the rails when sanding the stiles? If it was because you didn't keep a wet edge, well, now you know. If it was caused by sanding you likely will have to resand. But before you do that I would try wiping it with a wet sponge, water if it's a water only dye, or DNA if it's Transtint. If you are able to even out the color, great, if not, sand back until you get a uniform color.

    To rebuild the dye I would first mask off everything that's OK. You don't want to drool or spatter dye on those areas.

    After the new dye is dry, seal it as you said. At that point I would use a gel stain to even out the color, not traditional stain. The gel stain gives you more freedom to leave more where it's lighter, less where it's darker. You can layer it, too. Apply it thinly, wipe it off, let it dry. Reassess how it looks, and if it's not uniform enough then add more in the areas that need it. If it's still not as uniform as you want, you can seal that in, and then apply a glaze to help harmonize it. Lots of options.

    John

  3. #3
    Brain, if itís a powder water based dye like Transfast, Lockwood, etc, these dyes have no binder. This meaning you can wet a rag with distilled water (it looks like you dyed white oak) and move the dye about, if you go it it hard enough you can even lighten the color, if you wipe off the damped surface with a dry cloth, then repeat.

    You can then dye again with a less concentrated dye. Just keep in mind that a freshly dyed and dry surface will always look pretty bad. Thatís why you have to run your whole finishing schedule on some test boards..

  4. #4
    You have gotten good information. Iíve seen a lot of old chests and coffers ,and none of them looked like something from T. Chippendaleís
    shop. It looks like nice white oak and has nice fleck. Be proud !

  5. #5
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    Thanks men, appreciate the advice. Brian

  6. #6
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    Yea, wet it and work it.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert LaPlaca View Post
    Brain, if it’s a powder water based dye like Transfast, Lockwood, etc, these dyes have no binder. This meaning you can wet a rag with distilled water (it looks like you dyed white oak) and move the dye about, if you go it it hard enough you can even lighten the color, if you wipe off the damped surface with a dry cloth, then repeat.

    You can then dye again with a less concentrated dye. Just keep in mind that a freshly dyed and dry surface will always look pretty bad. That’s why you have to run your whole finishing schedule on some test boards..
    Robert, thanks for the advice. I've used this process a number of times, but on dresser, night stands, and book cases. This larger piece was more difficult for me since it has more surface area. Hard for me to keep a wet edge with the panels etc...I did go over it with a wet rag and it did even out the finish and lighten it quite a bit. Now my concern is after I apply the shellac and the gunstock oil based stain will it be dark enough in coloring to not stick out like a sore thumb with the other pieces. I could water down the walnut stain and go over the piece again, but feel like I would have the same problem with areas drying and coming out darker than some. Still trying to make up my mind to leave well enough alone or go at it again. I can always keep rinsing it off if I need to, but feel like I am giving myself a haircut; which always leaves me being bald! thanks again Brian
    Brian

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    Brian, for large areas, it's sometimes better to spray the dye, so keep that in mind for future projects. For this one, it may take you some time to carefully blend using water, but you'll "get there". I find that alcohol soluble dye is easier to "work and blend" than water soluble, but it's just a matter of degree of difficulty.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Brian, for large areas, it's sometimes better to spray the dye, so keep that in mind for future projects. For this one, it may take you some time to carefully blend using water, but you'll "get there". I find that alcohol soluble dye is easier to "work and blend" than water soluble, but it's just a matter of degree of difficulty.
    Jim, agreed on oil or alcohol based dyes, but my recipe I was copying said to use water, so that's what I did. I'm learning. here's pictures after this morning's water wash? Seems a little uneven, but I am hoping the gunstock will help blend it? Thanks Brian

    FB stained.jpgHB stained.jpg
    Brian

  10. #10
    Brian, thank you, John also gave you some really good advise also.

    The intersection of rails, styles and panels is always a killer, one needs to be really careful. Also the dye tends to pool into the dado, only to dribble out, at a less than opportune time. I think thatís what you were up against.

    I am also so guilty of leaving well enough alone, just a caution once you seal with shellac you kind of make changes a bit harder, Right now you can move the dye about easily, or switch to sanding problem areas and re-dying as John stated. I typically use gel stains as the glaze on top of shellac sealed dye, the stain will darken the final product proportional to how much you remove or leave.

  11. #11
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    I think you are getting close to the point that things are even enough that when you start applying your next steps, the variation is going to be almost unnoticeable by normal humans. That does look better!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I think you are getting close to the point that things are even enough that when you start applying your next steps, the variation is going to be almost unnoticeable by normal humans. That does look better!
    Thanks Jim. Brian

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    Headboard after shellac and gunstock. Thanks for all the help. Brian

    HB gunstock.jpg
    Brian

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    That looks pretty darned nice, Brian. It'll look even better after you apply the finish coats.

    So, how did you deal with the heavy dye areas. Wiping with a wet rag or ?

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    That looks pretty darned nice, Brian. It'll look even better after you apply the finish coats.

    So, how did you deal with the heavy dye areas. Wiping with a wet rag or ?

    John
    John, went over it three times with a wet rag. Gentle with light pressure, let it dry and repeat, repeat. Thanks Brian
    Brian

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