Cwi scorpion vs hammer A3-41

[Evan marples]

Im looking at jointer/planar combo units.

Right now in my shop i have a 6" helical grizzly jointer and the dewalt 12" planer whose name escapes me right now but it's their upgraded lunchbox style with the 4
Posts. Anyway. Im looking at a 16" J/P combo because a 12" combo just seems....like not much of an upgrade to me. The CWI scorpion and the Hammer A3-41both seem like the way to go. The CWI has a digital readout and comes with a mobility kit. Both of which are add ons for the already $2000 higher base model price tag on the hammer. I cant find any reviews comparing the two, just people saying they love their hammer. Anyway. Has anyone used both before? Ive used the hammer and its a beast, no doubt about it. But for $2000.......maybe the CWI is just as good?

[Greg Quenneville]

That CWI looks like a generic Chinese machine sold in a variety of colours and badges. Might be ok though. I think you may find value in the higher price tag for the Hammer

[Rod Wolfy]

Not familiar with the CWI. I've had a Felder 12“ J/P, a Jet 12“ J/P with a spiral and now an A3-41. Not planning to get anything bigger, as it does more than I need.

[Aaron Inami]

If you compare the 12" CWI scorpion model, it looks like a copy of the Jet jointer/planer (Chinese manufacturer). The angle of the planer lift crank is even the same. Cheaper than the Jet model, but more expensive than the Grizzly. You're likely to end up with the best quality if you go with the Hammer. Essentially, you get what you pay for in this industry.

[Keegan Shields]

Here’s the only review I’ve seen of the CWI Scorpion. Seems comparable to the A3-41.

https://youtu.be/1-nQmawXDCA

I picked up an almost-new A3-41 and the quality is ok. My 8” Jet jointer had nicer cast iron tables. Hammer is Felder’s economy product line, despite the high price. I believe the Hammer machines are also manufactured in Asia. It seems to be Felder’s attempt to compete in the lower end market but still draft off of their brand’s reputation.

I can tell you that for the $4k I paid, it’s a great machine. No way I’d pay full price ($7k maybe?) for it though. JMHO.

[Robert London]

I inquired about the CWI after seeing a video on YouTube. I emailed them 3 times and called as well several times. Could never get anybody to return a message. When customer service seems non existent, l’ll pass.

I ended up making a compromise and got the updated Grizzly 12” helical combo machine. Really wanted the 16”, but at nearly 1/2 the price with reasonable shipping, I went for it.

The Hammer seems inconsistent for nearly $7000 with shipping. If I was going to buy the 16”, I would have went with the minimax.

Always hit and miss, though, with these machines. Seems like they don’t inspect for tolerances as much from the level of complaints, and just send them out for the DIY crowd. Luck on which one you may get.

[Keegan Shields]

I inquired about the CWI after seeing a video on YouTube. I emailed them 3 times and called as well several times. Could never get anybody to return a message. When customer service seems non existent, l’ll pass.

I ended up making a compromise and got the updated Grizzly 12” helical combo machine. Really wanted the 16”, but at nearly 1/2 the price with reasonable shipping, I went for it.

The Hammer seems inconsistent for nearly $7000 with shipping. If I was going to buy the 16”, I would have went with the minimax.

Always hit and miss, though, with these machines. Seems like they don’t inspect for tolerances as much from the level of complaints, and just send them out for the DIY crowd. Luck on which one you may get.

I've always had great experiences with Grizzly's customer service. Grizzly seems to know that quality can be variable at the home shop price point, and they make up for it in customer service. Grizzly also stocks plenty of parts for its older models at reasonable prices.

I've not heard the same about Felder/SCMI with regards to their budget lines. That makes sense if a company's mainline business are 25K+ machines sold to businesses. Company culture is a real thing...

[Erik Loza]

If I needed a 16” J/P for my own shop, A3 would be a no-brainer.

Erik

[Dave Sabo]

Here’s the only review I’ve seen of the CWI Scorpion. Seems comparable to the A3-41.

I picked up an almost-new A3-41 and the quality is ok. My 8” Jet jointer had nicer cast iron tables. Hammer is Felder’s economy product line, despite the high price. I believe the Hammer machines are also manufactured in Asia. It seems to be Felder’s attempt to compete in the lower end market but still draft off of their brand’s reputation.

I can tell you that for the $4k I paid, it’s a great machine. No way I’d pay full price ($7k maybe?) for it though. JMHO.

perhaps you should get your FACTS correct before you start dispensing advice

Quality is first rate, as good or better than any of the Chi- Wan offerings. Perhaps the bed polishing is finer on your jet but is that bed as flat as the Hammer across its entire span ? Doubtful. Is the motor as high quality ? Nope. how about the machining on the ways & jack screws ? Are the electric switches and controls as good ? Doubtful.

Hammers are made in Austria.

a 16" Hammer is $6600 today, and that's very competitive with the new prices of the ChiWan machines. Couple of months ago you could get a 12" hammer cheaper than you could a JET or Rikon !

[Keegan Shields]

perhaps you should get your FACTS correct before you start dispensing advice

Quality is first rate, as good or better than any of the Chi- Wan offerings. Perhaps the bed polishing is finer on your jet but is that bed as flat as the Hammer across its entire span ? Doubtful. Is the motor as high quality ? Nope. how about the machining on the ways & jack screws ? Are the electric switches and controls as good ? Doubtful.

Hammers are made in Austria.

a 16" Hammer is $6600 today, and that's very competitive with the new prices of the ChiWan machines. Couple of months ago you could get a 12" hammer cheaper than you could a JET or Rikon !

My apologies Dave - I'll check with you next time to verify whether my "advice" meets your standards.


After digging around, Hammer machines appear to be ASSEMBLED in Austria with major components like castings produced in Asia. But definitely not manufactured in Asia as I thought.


Taking a step back, I believe the real question is - does the Hammer A3-41 deliver better results to justify its 2K higher price? While I haven't used the CWI machine, in my personal experience, there is no performance advantage over the separates I've owned. The silent power head performs the same as the other 3 segmented headed machines I've used. The jointer tables are flat and coplaner just like the Jet 8" jointer. The planer performs the same as my 90's Powermatic 15" planer (which had a Byrd Shelix head installed). The A3-41's performance is comparable to the 12" Jet J/P combo I've used as well. However, I did not like the short jointer tables found on 12" combo machines. And while it doesn't impact real world performance, the Hammer's cast iron surfaces are noticeable rougher than any of the other machines I've used.

Some folks on this forum seem happy to recommend buying the most expensive option. I am attempting to add some balance to the conversation. Lots of nice equipment is manufactured in Asia. Conversely - just because a premium European manufacturer makes a product doesn't guarantee its worth the price.

Having attended more than one marketing meeting where facts were mangled beyond recognition and bugs were turned into features, I look for input from my peers to assess what is true, and what is marketing BS.

[Dave Sabo]

KS - people make value decisions everyday , most of them centered around price.

But it’s never that simple , and the cheapest widget is rarely as good as the name brand one. If that were so , craftsman would still be selling jointers, bandsaws, tablesaws and planers like they were going outa style. Their jointers joint and planers plane just like your Hammer, Jet and Powermatic. That you don’t find the value proposition of a Hammer j/p compelling is totally fine. But that’s something much different than questioning quality , overstating the price , or throwing shade because you thought it was made in China


Some people on this forum seem happy to recommend buying the cheapest option. Doesn’t mean the el cheapo option is a good value either, it simply means it’s cheap. And don’t you find it curious that the ChiWan co.’s are now making combo machines that once only had a market in Western Europe ? If there wasn’t a market full of folk that saw value in them , these firms wouldn’t have copied the designs.

[Howard Rosenberg]

If you ever need to sell this machine, you'll make back almost 100% of any differential you might have paid for your Grizzly machine.

In contrast, the CWI is a totally unknown quantity.

It's their store's house-brand - almost zero distribution outside their home area.

While the CWI might look like other machines, you're at the mercy of the specs CWI is willing to pay for. It's the internal, non-visible bits that spell reliability/longevity.

Plus, not replying to multiple inquiries seems to say enough about service.