Oliver 166 jointer - upgrade to helical or replace machine?

[Jonathan Jung]

I have a 1942 Oliver 166-CD 16" jointer. Runs and performs wonderfully. It just looks the part of being a WWII unrestored relic. I've gone over the whole thing, cleaned everything up, removed and dialed the beds in, pulled the motor apart, replaced bearings, etc. It's running the original 440v motor. All this said, I hate straight knives and have been in queue for a custom helical insert head from Hermance. I don't want to debate what kind of head to get. The question I do have is this:

Do I spend ~$2,500 for a helical head

or

put that money towards a new machine (at $13,000+ for a SCM / similar)?

The only additional feature I think I'd like on a jointer would be a brake. Either an automatic motor brake or a very effective emergency brake. The Oliver has a little hand brake but it doesn't slow the head fast enough to be of much use in an emergency.

I think I already know the answer to my question...if spending an additional $10,500+ for a new machine will really only get me a brake, then keep the Oliver. That's a lot of cash for only one feature. I do like using the Oliver, other than the massive in-the-way porkchop guard. It's a piece of history, joints well, and is really easy to work on. Plus, I know it in-and-out. These points are worth something. But I thought I'd throw this out there to see if anyone has anything else I've missed.

How it sits now:

2022-10-26_09-27-53.jpg

Where I found it, at a boat yard in Seattle:

2021-06-26_14-28-42 (2).jpg

[Mel Fulks]

I would not . Buy buy some T-1 or M-2 knives from a dealer who will send ones with the etched marks on them. Not just an invoice saying
what they are .

[Bill Dufour]

Run it with a VFD and you get power brakes.
Bill D

[Patrick Kane]

The history is very cool on that machine, i like the before photo. Going off recent memory, you are maybe looking at $4,500+/- for an Oliver 166 in good shape. I assume yours is in great shape, because you just redid the motor and bearings. $4,500+$2,500 would get you a <20 year old euro machine with tersa head etc. I cant tell you if that machine will be better than an Oliver 166, because i havent used an oliver jointer before. I know guys love their old arn, and i had/have my fair share, but I do think newer is better in most cases. Over the years, some things became lighter, but the ergonomics, design, and safety features are almost universally improved on mid/high manufactures. For a period of time, i owned a 1970s Martin T75, Martin T17, and 2005 Felder KF700. The Martins were so much more robust in every conceivable way than the Felder, but given the choice id rather use the Felder. It's a lighter built saw, but the ergonomics are much nicer, the xroll table was nicer, and the outrigger/crosscut fence was a much better system than the vintage Martins. Id like to pick up another Martin T17 in the future, but that will hopefully be beside a much more contemporary Martin : )

A jointer is a different animal, because its simpler. It's just two tables, a fence, and a cutterhead. It sounds like you only have an issue with one of those items. A new machine will get you a different/better guard, potentially a better fence system, better dust collection, probably a quieter machine, more efficient cutterhead, and a brand spanking new machine with spotless tables etc. Those are all relatively minor upgrades--to me-- for the extra $6,000. If its performing well for you currently, then i might just sit back and keep an eye on markets over the next few years. I think back to the Woodweb listings 3-4 years ago with multiple T54's in the $12,000 range. If that kind of opportunity presented itself to me again, i would sell my vintage machine for what i can and spend the cash to upgrade to the Martin. Ask Albert for his opinion once he receives his new 20" SCM. Candidly, i havent operated a 16-20" machine newer than 2002.

[Jonathan Jung]

Will the 5hp (6.5amps at 440v) motor be enough for a helical head?

A VFD would make me nervous about overheating the old winding insulation. It's a good thought though, I'll have to run it by my industrial electrician. The head is so heavy that I wonder how effective a brake could be anyway.

The dust collection on it is reasonable, and can easily be made better by covering some gaps. It runs really quiet and smooth actually, being direct drive. The fence is rock solid and I never move it out of 90deg. It's really just the guard and the brake I think.

[Greg Quenneville]

How is the dust collection on the Oliver? If it works with your ducting then my bias would be to keep it, modify for insert cutters or Tersa and do something about the guard. I replaced the porkchop on my combination machine with a Jet euro guard which looks just like a Felder part.

I think jointers are one of those machines that add to the cast iron fetish. I like running heavier machines than welded-up ones. It could be a placebo effect, but they just seem smoother and more capable.

[Steve Jenkins]

I have a 1949 Oliver166. The cutter head and motor shaft are one solid piece. Don’t know how you could replace just the cutter head. I use Dispozablade knives in mine. They are straight knives but are indexed so changing them is a snap plus the steel is much better.

[Patrick Kane]

My noise comment was more geared towards the higher knife projection of those older cutterheads and the solid infeed/outfeed table lips.

I imagine 5hp is just fine for 16”. My 19.75” jointer is 5.5hp, and it’s fine. I just face jointed a few 8/4 glue ups that were 17-18” wide and it was no problem for the machine. I only took a 1/16” cut trying to be conservative on finished material thickness. If you bog it down, that means you are taking an obnoxious cut or your knives are dull.

[Bradley Gray]

Why do you hate straight knives?

[Andrew Hughes]

Have you ever faced wood on a helical head? I have and found out I didn’t like the extra hand pressure it takes to take a pass. A very small one.
I can understand your frustration if your using recycled wood. Or something exotic that has mineral streaks.
For ordinary common domestic woods I get a long time between knife changes on my 166.
Maybe you need some pointers?

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks, Andrew . I had not heard that ,and it should have been noticed and reported when that stuff started.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Just my opinion, I've wanted a 166 for as long as I've know what they are. I'd pay well for one like yours, if it happened to be for sale somewhere within my area. However, I would not pay one penny more for one with an aftermarket head. It's like a car that someone customizes. Their vision is appealing to them, but by doing so, they actually usually hurt the value of the machine. As a 166 is a desirable machine, I'd definitely not mess with one in good condition. Just sell it to someone like me and buy what you actually want.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I don't really see the purpose of a brake. If someone gets injured (which we hope they won't) on a jointer the damage will happen in a split second, and it will then be too late to benefit from stopping the head quickly. I suppose it is safer to have it spinning for less time after you're done using it, but with a guard that shouldn't make much difference either, I imagine. I kind of wanted a bandsaw with a brake so that I didn't have to wait as long to move things between cuts, but on a jointer that wouldn't seem to me to be a factor.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I have a 1940 Oliver 166 BD (12”) with a Terminus (like Tersa) indexed cutterhead. The head was already in the machine when I bought it and I can change knives in about 5 min and don’t have to touch the beds or think. Options for varying grades of HSS or carbide. No cheaper to buy outright than a helical I don’t think, but my personal preference on a jointer compared to helical but I have never run a Hermance so not sure I can really say.

My motor is 5 hp and I run it with a VFD set to decelerate from full speed to a stop in 7 seconds. Otherwise the head would take 5 minutes to spin down. It’s sort of about safety but more about convenience / speed / not having to wait for the head to spin down unrestricted. 7 seconds is pretty convenient for me. The head is nearly 5” in diameter fyi

Not sure upgrading to a ~$13k new machine is the best ROI coming from a well tuned 166 but we probably have different businesses. I would never buy a brand new jointer, personally and would only upgrade if I lucked into a local deal on a larger Tersa style head machine that was somewhere between SCMI and Martin. Otherwise I’d keep trucking with the Oliver as it’s a top tier jointer, IMO.

[Mel Fulks]

I’ve used old jointers with brakes. I think the main use was to get a guy out who never learned how to tuck in a shirt -tail.