Knew Concepts Coping Saw - Thoughts?

[Rob Luter]

One of the shortcomings of my dovetailing technique is sawing the waste out. I have a couple old time coping saws and the blade tension is so poor I can't risk getting close to the line for fear of wavering over. As a result I have to chisel more than I planned and sometimes find a way to botch that.

The Knew Concepts coping saw has been in the market for a while now and seems to be very well thought of. I've seen a few reviews and all seem to be positive. They also have fret saws available, but my experience with Fret Saws in the past suggests they be reserved to very fine work and thin stock. The coping saw seems better suited to sawing out waste in hardwoods.

To those that have pulled the trigger on these, what say you? They're a bit spendy but if they work as represented I can live with the cost. Any regrets? Asking for Santa, as he's looking for ideas.

[Derek Cohen]

Rob, I have this coping saw, and it is all you would want it to be (except I found the handle a little short). Having said this, the fretsaw is the tool of choice. You just need to learn to use it.

The secret to fretsawing dovetail waste is less high tension (high tension is still good), and more about control. Control comes from keeping the blade straight and preventing it curving as you pull/cut. To do this, use very light strokes, hold the saw/handle lightly (as you would a dovetail saw).

I've posted this video a few times now ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

[mike stenson]

I have both the coping saw and the fretsaw. While I agree completely with Derek, I'll just add that I use the coping saw to waste casework in thick stock such as the 7/8" stock for the credenza this past year. With that said, if I had to pick one, it would be the fretsaw.

[Warren Mickley]

I have used a coping saw for dovetails for about 45 years. Around 1987 I upgraded to an Eclipse coping saw, which is very rigid and I can recommend. The Eclipse sells for around $20.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have and use the KC Fretsaw for dovetails. As Derek said "It's everything you want it to be."
No regrets.

Edit: Do you NEED a $100 coping/fret saw? Nope. Not if you find something for less that works well, like Warren's Eclipse. But if you want the KC and can afford one, I dont think you'll be disappointed.

[David Bassett]

Just in case, learn to cut on the pull stroke with any coping saw!

I bought the Knew Concepts because I bought into the stiffer will help you cut better hype. It is much stiffer than any other coping saw I've used and therefore more pleasant to use (and more robust in handling the odd awkward stroke), *BUT* it is not stiff enough (for me) to reliably cut on the push stroke. (Being raised on western saws a push cut feels more natural to me.) Changing to a pull cut and taking the time to get used to the (slightly) different feel is what was revolutionary for me and controlling my cuts. (OK, still need more practice before I'll call myself good at it.)

As far as Warren's Eclipse recommendation I don't know if Eclipse saws have changed over the years or there are different models. I grabbed an Eclipse at my local Woodcraft in an attempt to upgrade my ancient no-name (probably Sears or Craftsman) saw and found it as stiff as a wet noodle and a clear downgrade. That's what got me to fork over for the Knew Concepts saw. Should I go back, using the Eclipse on the pull stroke and being much much smoother in my technique, I could probably use it now.

No one has mentioned blades. I think they can make a huge difference. The common recommendation these days are Pegas blades. I've found their 18tpi Skip-Tooth to work well for me, though they make others and which works best probably depends most on the size of your work. (Also, in a class I took, Chris Gochnour used my saw for a quick demo and liked my Pegas skip-tooth enough he made a note. If he ever runs out of his stash of ('60's?) blades, he said he would try these as replacement.)

[Thomas Wilson]

I have both Knew Concept saws. I am really impressed with the engineering on the frame and tensioning mechanism of both to improve a tool that is a hundred years old or more. That is some deep thinking. Personally, I use the coping saw for dovetails but I am not the smoothest sawyer around.

[Jim Koepke]

My Knew Concepts Fret Saw changed my abilities with using a fret saw. With my old fret saws a blade would break almost every time the saw was used. The Knew Concepts saw lead me to learn how to set up my other fret saws with higher tension to save the blades. (The KCFS is still better)

Another point about fret saws is there is an amazing variety of blades available.

Lee Valley has a great selection of blades > https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...s?item=29T0401 < This is the deal I like for its range of blades.

If the Knew Concepts Coping Saw is as good as their fret saw, then you will still be glad you bought one long after you wince at the cost.

jtk

[Rob Luter]

Thanks to all for the responses.

Derek - I read your review on the products on your website and appreciate you chiming in. My hesitancy on the fret saw comes with my experience with a couple vintage Olson saws I used to have. There were several issues. First was blade tension. There wasn’t much. Second was the retention of the blade in the end clamps. Very unpredictable. Third was the very fine tooth on available blades. They were always so fine that cutting through QSWO or Walnut of any thickness was a very slow process. I liken it to using me Exacto razor saw to cut dovetails. Laser accuracy, glacial pace.

I’ve been watching Doucette and Wolfe YouTube content and they follow a process like your example shows. The difference is that they use a coping saw and it goes pretty quickly comparison. I see the height of the coping saw blades is about twice that of the fret saw blades, allowing the fret saw to “turn the corner” in the kerf in a more nimble fashion. Still, I’m concerned about tooth pitch and cutting speed. What blades do you use?

Correction: I rewatched the videos and they do use a Fret Saw. It's the large frame model and I mistook it for the coping saw.

[Tom Trees]

Yet to make myself a saw, I think I may hopefully have some stainless plate knocking about.
Bought an old Eclipse to potentially use parts from, or maybe just for study, so this thread is interesting.
Here's an old looking fretsaw which I seen on a tool dealers, it looks the business, if a little short.
Just putting it out there, should it be common enough, or similar to another maker?

If so, I'd like to know what the shortcomings are, should it be improved upon.
Cheers
Tom

https://i.postimg.cc/qvMvK33Y/Fretsaw.jpg
Fretsaw.jpg

[Michael Bulatowicz]

I’m obviously not Derek, but I’ll say that my favorite fret saw blades so far are the Olson PGT reverse skip tooth blades, 8 TPI. They may sound coarse, but they really aren’t. I like the combination of speed and precision they provide. As long as you let the tool do the work rather than applying pressure to get them to cut even faster, they last a good while, too.

[Derek Cohen]

Tom, a potential shortcoming of that design is the weight. A light fretsaw adds control. Secondly, one of the design briefs for the KC saw was the ability to adjust the blade to 45 degrees. That adds distance to the cut length.

With an angled blade, depth of the fretsaw can be kept smaller. All mine are 5” in titanium, but 3” is sufficient … and cheaper. Further, the smaller size opens up the option of aluminium as the material since smaller is stiffer.

Blades: Pegas skip tooth #7. My original choice (many years ago) was the 18 tpi Eclipse, which are easy to find in Oz, and cheap. Lee Marshall (the original maker-designer) was impressed by them as well, but he said to me that they were difficult to access in the USA.

For those wanting to use a coping saw, I recall that (some years ago) Tools for Working Wood sold thinner blades. This could travel down the kerf of a modern dovetail saw.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[mike stenson]

The 18tpi skip tooth pegas blades fit in the kerf left by my LN dovetail saw.

[Dale Osowski]

I went with the coping saw for dovetails and so far it works great even on small, tight areas. I may get the fret saw as well but for now the coping saw is doing a great job.

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[Mike Brady]

The Knew Concepts fret saw (I have the coping saw size) is far superior, in my opinion, to the less expensive coping or fret saws generally available. I found some nice German-made fret saw in the used market, but they didn't come close to the KC saw for rigidity, and thus, control of the cut. I prefer Pegus skip-tooth blades. The years-old discussions abouth the KC stock handle are non-sense, unless you have the desire and skills to make a prettier handle. Buying one doubles the investment in the saw, and that would seem to be an overreach.