[OP]
Contributor
I believe I’m seeing the change of era. I see lots of references to bandsaws, table saws, power drills, jointers, powered routers, planers, ros’s. In todays world is anything that is not CNC, or somehow AI controlled considered a “hand tool”. Maybe neanders are becoming bronze agers.
LOL
Jim
Contributor
I’m a hybrid, 65% hand tools, 35% power. No CNC and no interest in acquiring one. In fact, some of the YouTube woodworking channels I used to follow have been unsubscribed due to an emphasis on CNC.
Contributor
I don't watch Woodworking for mere mortals any more since it was mostly power tool an plywood. There were some ideas that could be done by hand tool with traditional joinery.
I use a bandsaw mostly for ripping and resawing. Have to hand plane the surfaces.
A little time was spent rehabbing a pad saw handle today. It was picked up in a small antique shop for a few bucks yesterday. One thing that may need doing is drilling out the back side and tap them for the screws. The current threads in the brass nose piece seem to have been wallowed out over the years of use. My drill press will be used in this endeavor. Maybe it should be done with an eggbeater drill instead, if the neanderthal way of doing things must be followed.
I always thought it was not a real accurate name for people who do not have a full machine equiped shop.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Contributor
It seems very different to me when power tools are added to the mix. Table saw being used, you can clean up the edge with a block plane. Unless you are very well practiced on long rips by hand you’ll probably need at least a jack. No need for a scrub, jack, and jointer on face work if a planer is used. Not anything wrong, it’s just different. Different kit different approaches. I enjoy seeing and hearing about hand work much more than power tool work.
Jim
Contributor
I’m getting more into hand tools even though I do have the power equipment. There’s a lot of good hand tool woodworkers on the ‘net but I’m not sure that I’ve ever noticed the slant towards “CNC or bust” being the norm. Maybe I’m just slow.
I am thinking of learning to use a cnc machine which I can access, for a series of projects that I have in mind. Also it’s in a dry
warm space (my shop is an unconditioned garage).
All the final finishing will be using hand tools only, as usual.
Young enough to remember doing it;
Old enough to wish I could do it again.
Contributor
Jim, it is not the tools, but the way we use them, and our approach to building (whatever you build).Originally Posted by James Pallas
Some here want to remain out-and-out users of hand tools. Fine by me. I consider myself a fairly traditionally-orientated woodworker, insofar as I prefer joinery which possesses both the greatest strength and longevity (which includes reversibility for repairs in 100 years). This means mortice-and-tenon joinery rather than dominos or biscuits. Yet I own both these machines. They have a place in the workshop, but not for my furniture.
Basically, I use machines for the grunt work of preparation of rough stock, and then hand tools for joinery and finishing. Sometimes I use machines for joinery and finishing. I do have routers and sanders. It just depends on what you are building, how quickly, and what finish you seek. This is not often, since hand tools are where the fun lies.
There is art in using power tools well. But there are shortcut that are becoming increasingly seen - a degree in computer science is needed to run a CNC or similar, and I view this as a different kind of skill, not one I am interested in. I can see dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists becoming resentful and threatened by this new generation, since programming on a computer takes the place of years of practice at a bench.
Recently I purchased a 20 year old Festool tracksaw. It is like new, possibly used once or twice in its life. Why did I get it? Partly curiosity and partly I see a use. It was dirt cheap. So I built a bench to run a track as well as store a number of systainers I have accumulated over the years. My decision was to build this with mortice-and-tenon joints, rather than use a Domino. 24 M&T joints ….
It will not replace this ..
Regards from Perth
Derek
Last edited by Derek Cohen; 10-24-2022 at 10:49 AM.
Contributor
The Dungeon Woodshop has always been a Hybrid shop.....not because this or that tool....more of a matter of how well that tool will FIT into my shop...Then, I tend to use what I consider the best type of tool for a given task.....it may be a hand tool, it may be a power tool...it all depends on what task I am trying to do.
If one reads along on one of my "Build-along" posts....one will not only see the tool selections used...but.. I will usually describe WHY this or that type of tool got used....
There just isn't the space IN my shop for any CNC tools....and that is the way I prefer it.
All I ever ask of this or that type of tool..is that they do the tasks I NEED them to do....and....IF it can't..I'll soon find one that will.
A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use
Contributor
Is the Computer Numerical Control (CNC) the next step/era? Who knows. There is a quality to machine controlled cutting that looks so precise and neat and, re-stating the obvious, it looks machine made, that's not why I'm into woodworking. I'm no stranger to this technology, not in my line of work nowadays, but I'm not unfamiliar with programming, stepping motors, robotics, AI, etc. Perhaps it has the draw of new toy/gizmo for some audiences, but it's not for me, I couldn't care less to program cutting a bunch of letters, lines and/or circles.
Who would care to make, for example, doors, in this manner if not someone making a living in woodworking?
https://youtu.be/8LLUUgVRzLo
(yuk)
Contributor
Woodworking has always been an evolution of speed and refinement when it comes to using machines. Where you land on the evolutionary scale is very personal.
Some want to use all hand tools, but there are very few of those left. Next are the ones who use machines to the point where they can fit the lumber into the shop. Then there are those who use machines "just for rough work" which means many things to many people and so on and so on down the line until we get to primarily CNC users.
While everybody seems to have one these days, IMO, few people use them for more than cookie cutter type projects. If anyone knows of a good channel for CNC beyond cutting flat panels into shapes like a jigsaw on steroids, I would appreciate it.
For now and probably forever, I'll stick with my current method of using tools I can afford that can aid and/or simplify my work.
[OP]
Contributor
I was wondering what constitutes a neander woodworker today. To me it means hand powered tools. If your project starts out with jointer, planer, table saw, powered router, powered plane and ends with hand sawn dovetails and a smoothing plane is it a neander project or a general woodworking project? Because of CNC and AI in general have the mentioned tools been recognized as hand tools? I should say that I own and use powered tools. I generally buy rough lumber. In todays world it is not always available at suppliers. If the material comes into the shop and it is only touched by hand tools, no electrons, start to finish I post here. If I use power tools I post in General Woodworking. Sometimes I miss something though or forget.
Jim
Contributor
It may be a different concept for each person. If we were to be true to the name of Neanderthal, wouldn't we only use stone axes and knives?I was wondering what constitutes a neander woodworker today.
My projects sometimes do not use traditional joinery. Instead they might use screws, nails or pocket screws. Most of the time those are not posted here. The exception being when building a box to hold tanged twist drill bits for use in a brace or an end table with an apron made with molding planes.
Here is a piece where the bandsaw was used:
Big Hunk of Wood.jpg
Some had to be planed enough to set square on the table and against the fence to resaw the faces:
Hogging the High Spots.jpg
Then to the bandsaw:
In Re-Saw Cut.jpg
After that it was back to the bench for a lot of hand planing:
After the Bandsaw.jpg
Maybe this isn't true Neanderthal woodworking. Neither is it truely power tool woodworking. This hunk of lumber came from my neighbor's Alaska chain saw mill. At best, this may have been his second attempt at setting this mill up. If it had come from a lumber yard as rough cut, it would likely have been much closer to square.
To me, Neanderthal woodworking is a state of mind more than what is being used in the shop. Though in my shop there are really only three large power tools; a bandsaw, a drill press and a lathe. There are battery powered drills, a circular saw and electric sanders. They do not see much use.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Jim, although Neanderthal is rec.woodworking-speak for a woodworker who prefers hand tools, "Neanderthal" and "Galoot" are often used synonymously. You would know this if a member of the Old Tools listserve. Go to the website and this is the origin of Galoot ...
According to our illustrious GM, Patrick Olguin, the origin of the term "Galoot" as an honorific is as follows:
A long time ago, in a newsgroup far away, a discussion of saw-sharpening arose among the hunched and bent-backed. Several of this curious group, seeking to find further enlightenment on saw-sharpening (sawsets, and their operation, in particular), scurried to the relative safety of 4-way e-mail to discuss the arcane nature of this mostly-forgotten tool.
A day or so into the conversation, I was invited by Porthos, Athos, Darta.. oops! Wrong group. It was Huey, Louie, Dewey.. no no no! Steve LaMantia, Geoff Mason, Mike Davies, and Bruce Haugen invited me into their discussion to see if I could shed any light on the situation (some historians claim that they just needed someone to kick around).
It was fascinating. The discussion went on for days. The productivity at each of their employers plummeted. Finally, after much speculation, reading, debating, and almost no name-calling (I think I was called a few) Mike Davies managed to get his hands on some actual literature on the ubiquitous Stanley #42. He faxed it to each of "the five", as they came to be known, and then a strange thing happened. It can only be described as fate.
Within minutes, each person, on his own, contacted a renowned old-tool dealer, inquiring as to the availability and cost of a Stanley #42 pistol grip saw set. I think I was the last to contact him (I'm a slow typist), and the response I got from Patrick Leach was (paraphrased):
WTF is going on here? I'm sittin' here, minding my own business, when in the span of a couple seconds, I get e-mail from five galoots, demanding saw sets! What're you guys smokin' anyway?!
The exact verbiage is lost somewhere in cyberspace, but the key word was there: Galoot. It suited us. We are a little strange.
Links: https://swingleydev.com/archive/faq.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/
Regards from Perth
Derek
Contributor
I just need to produce stuff. No time is spent justifying which way I do it.
Member
A very relevant topic in light of the growing trend today towards CNC. I can imagine how confusing it is for a younger person to start woodworking with the choice of hand tool woodworking, hybrid woodworking, full-on power tools or skip it all and embrace CNC. The upcoming generation has already been raised with computers and CNC is almost a natural step in that direction. The message on social media is to get the work done quickly and move on to a next project. I see very, very little attention to detail anymore. Curious to see how this unfolds.
Last edited by Norman Pirollo; 10-25-2022 at 2:49 PM.
Norman Pirollo Furniture Maker + Educator
Contributor
For myself, it doesn't matter how the project starts, it always ends with hand tools doing the final few steps. Whether that's hand sanding or some other finesse work.
I have nothing against CNC machines themselves, it just seems too many start using them without a reasonable understanding of basic woodworking, which can be crucial.
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