Removing bolt for chuck installation on FS41

[Jim Becker]

Have you asked Sam Blasco for input?

[derek labian]

Have you asked Sam Blasco for input?

I did actually. He thought it was stuck do centrifugal force but didn't have a good idea on how to proceed.

[Phil Gaudio]

Although an impact driver/wrench seems pretty simple, I have learned that there are a few tricks to make it more effective. Insert the bit directly into the chuck without extension bars: we want maximum torque applied to the bolt. Physically get behind the driver and make sure that the driver is directly in-line with the center line of the bolt: holding it off angle will reduce its effectiveness. Push the driver against the bolt: use your body weight. After checking multiple times that the gun is turning in the correct direction, squeeze trigger: how long? 30 seconds, a minute, maybe more. I would have someone hold the locking pin/bar in place at the other end of the spindle during all of this, keeping the pin securely in place and against the stop. I use a DeWalt 20 volt impact wrench in my garage and I would imagine this would make quick work of this task.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Derek, sorry to here the machine is still fighting you. My FS41E is 2004 vintage, I know a lot of things have changed, but the backend (business) of that cutterhead looks just like my 20 year old machines. I for the life of don’t know why the set screws in the pulley need to be removed, IIRC the set screws are the only physical item that keeps the pulley on the shaft from spinning on the cutterhead shaft, besides the light press fit. Next to the living hell getting the mortising chuck off my machine, removing the pulley was a breeze, all it took was removing the two set screws and a visit from a bearing puller.

So I guess what I am saying is removing those set screws might be causing the pulley to spin on the shaft, making your attempt to remove the machine screw from the back of the cutterhead futile

[Phil Gaudio]

Those set screw holes are located between the inner and outer drive belts of the pulley: they apply force to the un-threaded portion of the bolt: refer to the picture I uploaded previously. No question that these screws need to be removed.

Derek, sorry to here the machine is still fighting you. My FS41E is 2004 vintage, I know a lot of things have changed, but the backend (business) of that cutterhead looks just like my 20 year old machines. I for the life of don’t know why the set screws in the pulley need to be removed, IIRC the set screws are the only physical item that keeps the pulley on the shaft from spinning on the cutterhead shaft, besides the light press fit. Next to the living hell getting the mortising chuck off my machine, removing the pulley was a breeze, all it took was removing the two set screws and a visit from a bearing puller.

So I guess what I am saying is removing those set screws might be causing the pulley to spin on the shaft, making your attempt to remove the machine screw from the back of the cutterhead futile

[Erik Loza]

+1 to Phil’s advice about technique with an impact. I had to crack a crank pulley once on an engine that was exposed to water for an extended period of time. Solid 45 seconds with a 1/2” pneumatic gun before it broke loose. Had to sit down for a break afterwards, LOL. Was leaning on that thing with about the same effort needed to push-start a car. Additional thoughts.

-No surprise that the OEM locking pin bent. All the various drop-in locking tools I ever handled from SCM were of pretty soft metal. I’ve bent several, only trying to loosen the blade arbors on new machines. What if you got a Grade 12.9 socket-head bolt that had the same OD as the locking pin. Long, so there is a fair amount of smooth shank, then remove the head with a cutoff wheel and use it to lock the cutterhead? It’s virtually impossible to bend a bolt like that.

-“Yes” to torching the pulley but remove the drive belts first.

What a hassle. Hope you get it resolved one way or the other.

Erik

[derek labian]

Thanks for the advice Phil/Erik.

I tried a different technique as advised. 2+ minutes with no extension and body weight. The socket was smoking and the entire wrench was red hot. Thats a bit of workout as suggested. Phil, I was using a Dewalt 20v/MAX 1/2 with 330 ft/lbs / 600 ft/lbs of breakaway.

I'll try again when I can get some help to hold the locking bar as Phil suggested. Update: Tried that as well, another 60 seconds and 3 batteries worth of trying. No soup.

I did check the threads on the chuck just to make sure nothing had changed as far as threading direction.

[Phil Gaudio]

Well, that is unfortunate. My bag of tricks is empty, but dare I say: could SCM have somehow made your machine with LH threads? I can't imagine how that would have happened, but based on your description above, that bolt should have broken free (barring the factories use of an excessive amount of nuclear-grade permanent loc-tite). I'd be contacting SCM again to see what they can do for you. Sorry I can't offer more than that. Good luck.

[Phil Gaudio]

One other thought: I have seen double set screws used on occasion (Delta DJ20 comes to mind). Look in the set screw holes with a flashlight and make sure you are seeing the bolt, and not a second set screw.

[derek labian]

One other thought: I have seen double set screws used on occasion (Delta DJ20 comes to mind). Look in the set screw holes with a flashlight and make sure you are seeing the bolt, and not a second set screw.

Hi Phil,

That was actually suggested to me by Sam Blasco early on, so good suggestion. No such luck though.

Thanks again for the help!

Derek

[derek labian]

Sadly, no progress on this after six weeks. Luckily I've been working with sheet goods, but that time is coming to an end. The current status is no responses from SCM since the initial PB Blaster suggestion. Sadly this seems to be par for the course, where open tickets linger for months, and phone calls/emails are never returned. It's all very odd; they are disorganized or busy, and I know they are having technical issues with their portal. I was warned before purchase that SCMs didn't care about supporting anything under 200k. It doesn't seem like they don't care, but it does seem like it's not a priority. Other examples: I've been trying to get that Motor replacement for damage (factory damage) on my S640P for over a year, and I have yet to get even an ETA. I could go on...


Anyway, back to the bolt; I need to figure out where to go except for a higher torque impact wrench. I think the SCM advice about heating up the bolt was not good because the rollers and belts are next to the bolt. It may have worked but I don't think I could have safely gotten it hot enough.


I tried a "Dewalt 20v/MAX 1/2 with 330 ft/lbs / 600 ft/lbs of breakaway".


I'm considering trying an Aircat 1150 1/2 Impact Wrench with 900 ft/lbs and 1,295 ft/lbs breakaway. I'm still worried about breaking the bolt, but I'm stuck here. Any better suggestions?

[Jay Houghton]

I've found Kroil to be the best penetrating oil. From what I know it will reach extremely small openings because of the molecule size being smaller than other penetrating oils. Along with the others it sure seems like there's a mechanical lock going on, not Locktite or mere corrosion. I have a Delta 12/14 table saw and the stories of getting the arbor out are very similar. Might be worth a search on OWWM to see if there's a new strategy over there.

[derek labian]

I've found Kroil to be the best penetrating oil. From what I know it will reach extremely small openings because of the molecule size being smaller than other penetrating oils. Along with the others it sure seems like there's a mechanical lock going on, not Locktite or mere corrosion. I have a Delta 12/14 table saw and the stories of getting the arbor out are very similar. Might be worth a search on OWWM to see if there's a new strategy over there.

Kroil "The Oil That Creeps". Seems like that couldn't hurt. Any suggestions on how long to let it "creep"?

I'll poke around on OWWM too.

[Mel Fulks]

Jay, where do you buy those molecule- measure-rers ? My yard- sale Starrette micrometer won’t work on stuff that small.

[Erik Loza]

Derek, just thinking out loud: Is there ANY possibility that thing is actually LHT? Italy making some design change (for whatever inscrutable reason) and not telling anyone would be pretty on-brand. I mean, if that really isn’t budging, you’re not going to hurt it by reversing direction on the gun for a moment. It justs seems so odd that a 1/2” gun can’t make quick work of that bolt.

Erik