Approach for Building a Basement Wine Bar?

[Pat Germain]

I recently bought a house which is under three years old. It was a spec home, so the builder installed an odd combination of options. One of the builder options was a basement wine bar. My house has the roughed in plumbing for a sink, but not the wine bar. I would like to build my own wine bar. In the model home, it appears it's mostly some low-end cabinets on the floor with a small sink and some more cabinets overhead. I would like to take it up a few notches.

For years it was more cost effective to buy IKEA cabinets than to build your own cabinets. Here in post-Pandemicland, is this still the case? I would be happy to spend a little more to make some really nice cabinets, but not if it involved a ridiculous amount more than prebuilt cabinets.

I was thinking about installing an inexpensive quartz countertop, but I'm open to suggestions. Would a nice wooden countertop work for a wine bar? Maybe that would look really spiffy with painted cabinets? My wife and I drink very little. I have a home theater in my basement, so this "wine bar" would be more of a snack bar with a refrigerator for sodas and maybe a Beer Meister tap. (I do like an occasional beer.)

I'm hoping to get some advice and suggestions. And if anyone else has built a home bar I would love to see pictures.

Thanks.

[Jim Becker]

Ikea's cabinet boxes, particularly the higher end lines are nicely built. I chose them for the laundry room in our previous residence as I just didn't have the time to build more cabinets after taking care of the bathroom vanities and the wet bar. At that time, the drawer systems were the Blum metal drawer box setups which work really smoothly. I haven't looked at the details recently and only bought a few of the low end cabinets for the temporary garage shop last year. Worth looking at for sure as they are generally as good, if not better than anything you're going to find at the big box store, assuming you do not want to build your own. Supply chain was a bigger challenge but hopefully that's mitigated a bit and their stocking situation has improved.

I see little negative with using a wood countertop for a wine bar as long as it's finished well. A sink is the biggest risk to protect from; ordinary drink spills and condensation should be handled acceptably by a properly cured finish, such as Target's EM8000cv with the crosslinker that improves chemical resistance.

[Pat Germain]

Ikea's cabinet boxes, particularly the higher end lines are nicely built. I chose them for the laundry room in our previous residence as I just didn't have the time to build more cabinets after taking care of the bathroom vanities and the wet bar. At that time, the drawer systems were the Blum metal drawer box setups which work really smoothly. I haven't looked at the details recently and only bought a few of the low end cabinets for the temporary garage shop last year. Worth looking at for sure as they are generally as good, if not better than anything you're going to find at the big box store, assuming you do not want to build your own. Supply chain was a bigger challenge but hopefully that's mitigated a bit and their stocking situation has improved.

I see little negative with using a wood countertop for a wine bar as long as it's finished well. A sink is the biggest risk to protect from; ordinary drink spills and condensation should be handled acceptably by a properly cured finish, such as Target's EM8000cv with the crosslinker that improves chemical resistance.

Thank you, Jim. That's very helpful. There's an IKEA store about an hour north of me in Denver. Is it best to pick up the cabinets at the store, or to order cabinets? It will be a while before I get going on this project. (I have an extended work trip coming up.) I'm trying to get a plan going right now.

[Richard Coers]

With your description of "drinking very little", and "occasional beer", I would suggest you build a small kitchen instead. A small dishwasher will be much more convenient than a sink. Call the kitchen a wine bar if you need to impress guests, but sounds like you need adequate electricity more than a fancy bar. The beer keg will go flat before you empty it in that expensive beer tap. I don't know what the smallest keg can be bought, but a real expense to cool an entire keg to have 1 beer every couple days.

[Pat Germain]

With your description of "drinking very little", and "occasional beer", I would suggest you build a small kitchen instead. A small dishwasher will be much more convenient than a sink. Call the kitchen a wine bar if you need to impress guests, but sounds like you need adequate electricity more than a fancy bar. The beer keg will go flat before you empty it in that expensive beer tap. I don't know what the smallest keg can be bought, but a real expense to cool an entire keg to have 1 beer every couple days.

A beer keg has a CO2 supply. Why would it go flat? But you do bring up a good point. If I have only a few beers on the weekends, a keg likely isn't justified. I'm not trying to impress anyone. Don't see a need at all for another dishwasher. But I do plan to install a side-by-side fridge. There's already a 120V outlet there. Should be more than capable of powering a 'fridge and a popcorn machine.

[Dave Sabo]

For years it was more cost effective to buy IKEA cabinets than to build your own cabinets. Here in post-Pandemicland, is this still the case?

Of course. The fundamentals haven't really changed. IKEA is one of the most vertically integrated manufacturers I know of - which is why they can offer low prices to begin with.

I would be happy to spend a little more to make some really nice cabinets, but not if it involved a ridiculous amount more than prebuilt cabinets.

Well, you'd have to tell us what you consider to be "really nice" and what a "ridiculous amount" is. Some veneer plywood is going for over $200 a sheet these days. Even a 36" melamine shelf at the BORG is close to $20 bucks Then you'll need to tell us how much you value an hour of your time.

I know a few guys that'll buy IKEA boxes then make -or- order doors and drawer fronts in whatever style , species, or finish tickles their fancy.

I would be happy to spend a little more to make some really nice cabinets, but not if it involved a ridiculous amount more than prebuilt cabinets.

Never seen quartz tops that I'd consider inexpensive. Where do you find those ? Wood tops would be more what I'd expect to find at a wine bar, but that's me.

so this "wine bar" would be more of a snack bar with a refrigerator for sodas and maybe a Beer Meister tap. (I do like an occasional beer.)

These criteria don't really have much influence on the aesthetic choices you make on the cabinets. The smallest keg is a mini or 'bubba' keg. It's not quite 2 gal and there is usually limited selection available - read cheap beer. A lot of European brands (and craft breweries) have 5liter kegs that are a little easier to deal with and more widely available. Any option is really only good for a month or so after opening ; so you'd better enjoy a draft often to make this worthwhile.

I'd suggest a double drawer undercounter fridge. Or a fridge / freezer drawer if you like ice & frozen treats too. This will be the least obtrusive, most versatile appliance you can do down there. They ain't cheap though.

drawers:
https://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Draw...671+4294963033


with freezer / ice:
https://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Draw...294963033+1086

[Pat Germain]

Of course. The fundamentals haven't really changed. IKEA is one of the most vertically integrated manufacturers I know of - which is why they can offer low prices to begin with.



Well, you'd have to tell us what you consider to be "really nice" and what a "ridiculous amount" is. Some veneer plywood is going for over $200 a sheet these days. Even a 36" melamine shelf at the BORG is close to $20 bucks Then you'll need to tell us how much you value an hour of your time.

I know a few guys that'll buy IKEA boxes then make -or- order doors and drawer fronts in whatever style , species, or finish tickles their fancy.


Never seen quartz tops that I'd consider inexpensive. Where do you find those ? Wood tops would be more what I'd expect to find at a wine bar, but that's me.


These criteria don't really have much influence on the aesthetic choices you make on the cabinets. The smallest keg is a mini or 'bubba' keg. It's not quite 2 gal and there is usually limited selection available - read cheap beer. A lot of European brands (and craft breweries) have 5liter kegs that are a little easier to deal with and more widely available. Any option is really only good for a month or so after opening ; so you'd better enjoy a draft often to make this worthwhile.

I'd suggest a double drawer undercounter fridge. Or a fridge / freezer drawer if you like ice & frozen treats too. This will be the least obtrusive, most versatile appliance you can do down there. They ain't cheap though.

drawers:
https://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Draw...671+4294963033


with freezer / ice:
https://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Draw...294963033+1086

I've looked at those built-in drawer refrigerator/freezers. Those are way too expensive in my opinion. Surprisingly, the most cost effective solution appears to be a full-size side-by-side which is what I plan to use.

While quartz isn't cheap, it's cheaper than granite and marble. My house came with quartz counters in the bathrooms. Quartz is standard for the kitchen as well, but the builder installed the granite upgrade counters in the kitchen. I would have been fine with quartz, but the granite was already there.

[Dave Sabo]

While quartz isn't cheap, it's cheaper than granite and marble.

Really ? Again , where is this ?

Not anyplace I’ve done a kitchen in the last 20+ years which is ATL, NYC, L.A., Denver, Charlotte, HiltonHead, Nashville, Memphis, and the FL panhandle. But, the market is bigger than huge so I’m sure a scenario is out there. But as a generalization quartz is not cheaper than granite.

Those are way too expensive in my opinion.

Surprisingly, the most cost effective solution appears to be a full-size side-by-side which is what I plan to use.

Not surprising at all. Old skool SxS have fallen outa favor now . Sure those drawers are a lot of money, but they offer a lot in return. Especially if you want to highlight nice cabinetry and countertops. And you want to "take it up a notch" - that's not a

Besides, just a second ago you were waxing on about a kegerator. Those are two thousand dollar one trick ponies that all too often never get ridden beyond the first keg. Thus, becoming a big and expensive paperweight. Those drawers allow for beer/ soda/ champagne, wine, bottled water, ice, popsicles and ice cream cones with convenient access in a gee wiz package that doesn't scream Builder Option or BORG.

[Pat Germain]

I don't have your experience with kitchen installs, but when I as a consumer price quartz and granite, granite is almost always more expensive. When I was trying to build a house, the builder charged extra for granite vs. quartz, so apparently it's not just me.

Thanks for the perspective on the drawer units.

To be fair, I mentioned a kegerator once in my original post; hardly, "waxing on".

Side by sides haven't fallen out of favor in my house. If they were good enough for Carol Brady, they're good enough for me. Although, maybe not in avocado green.

[Dave Sabo]

What your production builder’s price was is sorta irrelevant at this point. We charge a hefty premium for work we don’t particularly like or from vendors we have to expend sizable management time on. I suspect this is what’s happening with your builder’s structure.

I also cannot say what specific slabs you’re comparing in your example. I can say in those markets mentioned that the cheapest granite slabs have always been less than the cheapest quartz slabs. Admittedly, I have no experience in CO. Springs.

While SxS may be the all the rage in your house , they are not in the majority of your neighbors. Hence, they don’t command a premium price, making only a top mount freezer the only more “cost effective” offering.

I’m really not sure how to square poo pooing “ some low-end cabinets ” and “takin it up a notch” with it’s good enough for the Bradys ? Who’s cabinets were closer to low end builder grade than they were Architectual Digest. In the end it’s your bar and only you need to be happy.

[Gary Ragatz]

Really ? Again , where is this ?

Not anyplace I’ve done a kitchen in the last 20+ years which is ATL, NYC, L.A., Denver, Charlotte, HiltonHead, Nashville, Memphis, and the FL panhandle. But, the market is bigger than huge so I’m sure a scenario is out there. But as a generalization quartz is not cheaper than granite.

We built new about 6 years ago. Our builder's options for countertops, in order of price, were:

• Laminate - cheapest
• Solid surface (e.g., Corian)
• Engineered quartz (e.g. Silestone)
• Granite
• Marble - most expensive

There was some overlap in cost between categories, depending on specific patterns and finishes chosen. This is what was on their "menu." They would also install butcher block, stainless steel, concrete, or whatever as a "custom" order, but mark-ups were steep.

We went with laminate in the laundry room, which nobody but my wife and I see, solid surface in the bathrooms, where there's not much to scratch or stain the tops, and quartz in the kitchen. No regrets.

[Dave Sabo]

Like I said - "builder's options" aren't really indicative of pricing out in the marketplace. Unless you're planning on using your builder for the work, his option list's costs aren't going to be very accurate. It is a reference point though.

They would also install butcher block, stainless steel, concrete, or whatever as a "custom" order, but mark-ups were steep.

Pretty much standard. And I think you're seeing a bit of this in his reg. options list too.

I wouldn't get to hung up on quartz being the best/cheapest/whatever until you get some actual quotes from local fabricators. And some people prefer quartz even if it is more expensive for its inherent properties. Honed carrera for a counter may be beautiful to see and touch, but not as much after your guests spill that dark Bordeaux or margarita on it and it stains or etches. For me, in a bar, wood is the best option for looks and price.

Afterall .......................this is a woodworking site

[Richard Coers]

A beer keg has a CO2 supply. Why would it go flat? But you do bring up a good point. If I have only a few beers on the weekends, a keg likely isn't justified. .

For a properly stored keg in a kegerator, how long the beer will remain fresh will depend on the style of beer. Pasteurized beers can stay fresh from three to six months. For non-pasteurized beers, you can expect the keg to stay fresh approximately two months.

[George Kasten]

I'm hoping to get some advice and suggestions. And if anyone else has built a home bar I would love to see pictures.

Thanks.

I spent a lot of time searching for photos and plans for a basement bar build, but couldn't find anything that clicked for me. Eventually, I decided to go with a granite top -- we're very pleased with the results. There is no built-in fridge or cooler, but we have a Gladiator refrigerator and freezer out in our garage a few steps away.

The bar and the sink cabinets are framed with 2x4 lumber (using pocket hole screws and glue) for strength to hold the granite tops. The "skins" are made from 4/4 rough sawn cherry and 1/2 inch cherry ply for the bar panels and drawer fronts. The 12 drawers are from 1/2 inch ply with 1/4 inch ply bottoms. Not shown in the photos, I subsequently added warm colored, dimmable LED strip lights under the bar's granite overhang --- that adds a nice warm glow on the cherry panels.

Cost??? Granite in western Pennsylvania was about $3500 for both pieces that were cut from one slab. The cherry lumber and ply was probably about $800 if I remember correctly. The finish is a General Finishes Gel stain with GF water-based, semi-gloss topcoat.

DSC03018A.jpgDSC03020A.jpgDSC03037A.jpg

[Pat Germain]

I spent a lot of time searching for photos and plans for a basement bar build, but couldn't find anything that clicked for me. Eventually, I decided to go with a granite top -- we're very pleased with the results. There is no built-in fridge or cooler, but we have a Gladiator refrigerator and freezer out in our garage a few steps away.

The bar and the sink cabinets are framed with 2x4 lumber (using pocket hole screws and glue) for strength to hold the granite tops. The "skins" are made from 4/4 rough sawn cherry and 1/2 inch cherry ply for the bar panels and drawer fronts. The 12 drawers are from 1/2 inch ply with 1/4 inch ply bottoms. Not shown in the photos, I subsequently added warm colored, dimmable LED strip lights under the bar's granite overhang --- that adds a nice warm glow on the cherry panels.

Cost??? Granite in western Pennsylvania was about $3500 for both pieces that were cut from one slab. The cherry lumber and ply was probably about $800 if I remember correctly. The finish is a General Finishes Gel stain with GF water-based, semi-gloss topcoat.

DSC03018A.jpgDSC03020A.jpgDSC03037A.jpg

Wow, that's really spiffy! Thanks so much for sharing. This is inspiring. (I'm a Theodore Roosevelt Plankowner.)