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Thread: Record 44? Why always in the UK?

  1. #1
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    Record 44? Why always in the UK?

    I make boxes. And (mostly) only boxes. With the occasional shelf thrown in, though itís under the sink or somewhere else. Hidden. Forgotten but used.
    The boxes are often gifts. Sometimes requests. One was for a dear dear friend. Though heís still alive so hasnít used it yet. Pine.

    As my sliver of skills has improved, Iím finally able to find a bit of satisfaction in some aspects of the boxes. I really like how cleanly the floors inset in a small walnut box. Something you might throw your keys/change into as you walk into your home.
    A box that gets used daily in a busy life. Sturdy and not terrible to look at. But nothing you would worry about if a cat knocked if to the floor.

    Recently I started to worry that an inset floor might expand w/ heat/moisture and push those carefully mitered corners apart.
    Havenít seen it happen yet. My concern began when someone gave me some ďreally crappyĒ mahogany. Why crappy I asked? He said it wasnít stable.

    So those very same floors that I liked might need to change. And so Iím now teaching myself how to make clean grooved that a floor can sit in, floating a bit. Able to grown/shrink without damaging a small boxís corners.

    That led me to the Record 44 Plow Plane. Pretty perfect for the task. At least as perfect as the overpriced and so nice Veritas Skew Rabbet plane that I am always happy to use.

    As I wander eBay looking at various Records I find battered versions, missing parts. And showroom classics. Some are cheap. Some less so. But all have the hefty shipping that comes with a lump of steel being sent across the ocean.

    Two questions-
    Why are they all in the UK?
    And what US based company might offer such a tool? K

    Thanks.
    -PD
    Itís easier to be fooled, than to know Ive been fooled.

  2. #2
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    Record tools are made in England. Not many made it over here.

    You might try looking for a Stanley #50:

    Stanley #50 in Use.jpg

    I think they are about the same size. The later Stanley's have a lever adjuster whereas the Records have a threaded adjuster.

    Patrick Leach often has Record planes for sale on his monthly list > http://www.supertool.com < Start here and click on through. You might try sending him an email to see if he has anything on hand.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #3
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    When looking at Record combination planes, look past any 044C you come across. I bought one new when they were available. The depth stop is probably the worst ever, and not even useable. I like the cutters though, and they fit in Stanley 45's and 55's.

  4. #4
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    Jim hit it on the head. Record was made in England. If memory serves, Record often produced clones of Stanley offerings once patents expired. Record also produced unique tools. Record also received a significant boost from a ďMade in EnglandĒ campaign post-1929ish. That said, I picked my first 044 up from Ed Lebetkin. He tends to get a lot of tools from the UK. Worth dropping him an email to ask or drop into the store if you find yourself in that part of North Carolina.

    edlebetkin@gmail.com

  5. #5
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    They were sold at retail here at least into the '80's. I think that, and the '70's were when I bought all mine.

  6. #6
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    Not answering your questions, but another option:
    1. Mark the groove sides using a marking gauge
    2. Saw the walls of the grove using a rip filed backsaw
    3. Remove the waste using a router plane, chisel or a crank necked chisel.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A Faulkner View Post
    Not answering your questions, but another option:
    1. Mark the groove sides using a marking gauge
    2. Saw the walls of the grove using a rip filed backsaw
    3. Remove the waste using a router plane, chisel or a crank necked chisel.
    And clean up the sides of the slots with side rabbet planes.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
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    I live in the Uk
    If you are happy to pay the shipping there is a uk auction house that sells woodworking tools They have about 6 sales per year 3 general tool sales and 3 collector tool sales
    https://www.davidstanley.com
    Please note you need to read the conditions of sale as in addition to the sale price there are other charges
    Looking to the future it has been suggested the Uk government may not charge the Vat element for overseas buyers

  9. #9
    I bought my 043 from Jim Bode tools.

    https://www.jimbodetools.com/pages/s...q=Record%20044

  10. #10
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    So those very same floors that I liked might need to change. And so Iím now teaching myself how to make clean grooved that a floor can sit in, floating a bit. Able to grown/shrink without damaging a small boxís corners.

    That led me to the Record 44 Plow Plane. Pretty perfect for the task. At least as perfect as the overpriced and so nice Veritas Skew Rabbet plane that I am always happy to use.
    Peter, I am curious to know whether you realise that you are comparing apples with oranges. The Record #044 is a plough plane, specialising on grooves. The Veritas Skew Rabbet plane would make a frightful mess of the grooves for your box, as it is a rebate plane.

    Also curious to know why you consider anything overpriced if "so nice"?

    I would be looking at the Veritas Small plow - buy once.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  11. #11
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    Here in the states Stanley 45's are pretty common and can be picked up cheap if you have patience. You can find them under $100 with the irons if you hunt hard enough. The 45 can be a little finicky to set up but once you get the hang of it, it's a perfectly functional tool.

    Otherwise if you want a quality tool now, I second Derek's advice about the veritas small plow plane.

  12. #12
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    Derek, if I'm reading the original post correctly, the comment on the Veritas plane was meant to read as: a Record 44 seems as nicely suited to making grooves as a the Veritas filister is to making rabbets. As in the Veritas is really good at what it does (not that he tries to make grooves with the rabbet plane).

    To the OP - It was mentioned before, but I have a Stanley 50 that is a great basic plow (like the Veritas small plow), and is less complex than combo planes like 45s and 55s. I'm not sure what prices are like now, but right before the pandemic I picked one up in very nice shape with a full set of cutters for under $100. Might be a good alternative to hunting down a Record or paying 4x as much for the Veritas.

  13. #13
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    I have a record plow plane Iíve had since the 1970s, and I can say unequivocally itís probably the sloppiest, least effective hand tool in my shop. Fence adjustments not parallel, depth stop doesnít work (incredibly bizarre 1970s engineering solution of an expanding plastic collar that is supposed to hold it in place when compressed), other than that how did you like to play Mrs. Lincoln?

    Previous posters hit on the head for options: Stanley 45 or 55 (also in my opinion finicky to set up), or the LV plow plane. For my money the Lee Valley plow plane is a perfect hand tool Ė simple, extremely effective at intended job. As much as I make grooves in my furniture and other projects, itís well worth having a dedicated tool that does the job extremely well. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

    Best, Mike

  14. #14
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    Is there any love here for a Stanley #46 skew combination plane?
    I picked one up years ago, and it has sat in the box I got it in all this time. When I read threads like this I got a jolt of yikes! the years are flying by and I need to put that plane to use!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Allen1010 View Post
    I have a record plow plane I’ve had since the 1970s, and I can say unequivocally it’s probably the sloppiest, least effective hand tool in my shop. Fence adjustments not parallel, depth stop doesn’t work (incredibly bizarre 1970s engineering solution of an expanding plastic collar that is supposed to hold it in place when compressed), other than that how did you like to play Mrs. Lincoln?

    Previous posters hit on the head for options: Stanley 45 or 55 (also in my opinion finicky to set up), or the LV plow plane. For my money the Lee Valley plow plane is a perfect hand tool – simple, extremely effective at intended job. As much as I make grooves in my furniture and other projects, it’s well worth having a dedicated tool that does the job extremely well. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

    Best, Mike
    Mike, does your Record from the 1970s look like this?

    Record-No-045-C-Plough-Plane-9.jpg

    I recall seeing something like that at Whole Earth Access back in the 1970s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gibney View Post
    Is there any love here for a Stanley #46 skew combination plane?
    I picked one up years ago, and it has sat in the box I got it in all this time. When I read threads like this I got a jolt of yikes! the years are flying by and I need to put that plane to use!
    I have a #46 but only have a couple of blades. I haven't gotten around to setting mine up either.

    I have to agree with Mike about the #45 & #55 being a bit finicky. Even the #50 is easier and mine doesn't have a blade adjuster.

    For my test drive of the Veritas Small Plow Plane > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?251419

    Other planes are also compared.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 09-30-2022 at 9:12 PM. Reason: Relised it was Whole Earth, not Whole World
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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