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Thread: Remote paint pot for pressure-fed gun

  1. #1

    Remote paint pot for pressure-fed gun

    Recent "advancements" in water-borne coatings have resulted in some very odd results, backing me into a corner, where I must use a hand-held spray gun for both clears and pigmented finishes. New "features", such as "micro-foaming" have pushed me away from the trusty old Titan 440i paint pump, which I normally would reach for when faced with large batches of parts in the spray booth. Terrible results with newer clears foaming up, causing cloudiness, and warnings on label of pigmented coatings about this new issue as well. (Glad I never invested in a Kremlin!)

    Favorite hand-held is a gravity-feed Anest -Iwata, but even jumping to a 1.8 N/N set, some of the current formulations of clears are still having issues getting through and atomizing properly, many of which will only allow up to 5% for thinning. Too far a stretch to add a remote pot to a gravity feed, and tired of dropping $200 each step up in needle /nozzle sets, so...

    Enter gun #2: Qual-spray 6008 from Homestead Finishing. A true master for pushing the thickest coatings through. Not as super-fine as the Anest, but decent enough. Bottom cup is cumbersome, and can require 4-6 refills in a single coating session.

    Solution: get a remote pot. Okay, but now we're into all stainless steel for WB, which now include catalysts, which even more urgently pushes one to all Stainless Steel construction.

    Bottom line question: Anyone have experience enough to suggest whether a 2qt or 2.5 gallon is better to work with, given the size of task? I imagine I'd like to be able to drop a gallon can into a 2.5 gallon pot, seal it up and only be faced with a single refill per session.
    Good resources are always appreciated, but strong likelihood I'll stick with Homestead. Quite the investment for the SS versions, so really would like some input with others who may have done something similar in recent years. Is the extra grand for a 2.5gallon worth it over a 2qt?

    Thanks,

    Jeff

  2. #2
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    What tip are you using with the airless? LPFF? What pressure? Using a pressure gauge?

  3. #3
    Tip is usually a 310-410. IME, smaller, single digit orifices are notorious for plugging. New hose. New gun. Super-clean filters. No pressure gauge on the airless, but was dialed down almost to the bottom of pressure "scale" or zone on the Titan's dial, likely well below 2k psi. Just enough above the cleanout mode to atomize and get a proper fan pattern.
    Used this setup for years, including many gallons of WB clears, but latest offerings are just behaving poorly. Finally realized what was going on when reading about this effect on a can of SW pigmented Chem-Aqua I recently tried. They introduced me to the phrase "micro-foaming" in their product data-sheet, as they warned to use as low a pressure as possible with Airless and Air-Assisted Airless systems. Something about the viscosity vs turbulence of the high pressure = micro bubbles that can cloud a clear coat and dull the sheen on pigments (all water born). Kind of like shaking instead of stirring will introduce bubbles in a finish. I've witnessed it recently with Mohawk WB conversion varnish. Just no way to dial it out. Believe me, it's as ridiculous to me as it probably sounds to you.

    Finally gave up, grabbed the AM6008 gun and enjoyed very good atomization, flow out and general performance.
    Last edited by Jeff Roltgen; 09-26-2022 at 5:56 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Is that a Low Pressure Fine Finish tip? I'm using them right around 1,000 psi. I have a video on here somewhere of setting pressure with different tips.

  5. #5
    welcome to the green world. Shaken not stirred.

    Used pressure pots forever from the first time I tried one. Heat them when I want as well. dont know the new finishes you use though and how much grief they are and ive read enough to know some are having that. 2 gallon was always fine for me. I just about never sprayed more in one shot but did run out the odd time. Did the can inside enough times as well. Doing it again I might get them with a whirley bird inside to keep things stirred.

  6. #6
    Tom, just double checked - definitely "FF LP" on the tips.

    Warren, Glad to hear I'm not the only one. Sometimes you start thinking you're going crazy with this stuff!
    Looks like the Homestead Finishes offering does have an air operated agitator, which from past experience, I found is nice. Wish I could skip the stainless expenditure, but I know if I try to cheat in something else, I'll just get bitten. Oh yes, plenty of offerings out there for 1/10 the price, but guess what? Not really stainless steel, they just wanted you to click, so they threw that in the description.

  7. #7
    jeff 40 years ago someone put a pressure set up in my hands after using bottom cups and I was done. I have both bottom and gravity and reasons they are used but I have a number of pressure pots maybe five. I did run water based in them but the guns are stainless. the guns are more important water based stuff latex primer and others but mostly the latex primer for particular top coats. the heating came in and needed for my mickey mouse set up. I can work around crap set ups at times but dont enjoy it. To heat I use two Canadian Tire batter warmers strapped to the pot. I can run one or two. For my rust proof set up I put those in a rubbermaid with roxul packing the rest and a lid on top I cna heat to 100 degrees but it cools in the lines as they are not heated and im usually doing it too late in the season so lose some benefit. Still the stuff is so thick to start the stir stick stands up.

    Ive run gravity fed on hoses and it worked and ive run old style devilbiss upside down with 3M on that and more than i can remember. mostly use sata with digital gauges in the handle. Cups are just too large and I hate a regulator as well I want it light and small. Another help is a flex air coupling as it takes some of the stiffness out of it all so my fluid may not have a flex on it but the air does so it cuts that feel down to more flexible. I watched a guy years ago paint a huge cadillac with a quart cup sata. Im sure he was in good pain by the time half the hood was done, real man stuff i dont need, the weight changes as you go and so does spray pattern as less fluid does not have the same gravity push to it. Painted a car with a pressure pot and it worked great.

  8. #8
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    Call Jeff Jewitt on the phone and talk to him about how best to set things up with that gun. He's a nice guy to converse with and knows his stuff. (He's also a phenomenal acoustic guitar builder)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #9
    Warren, thanks again for confirming - I probably am on the right track. You hit the nail on the head regarding the "Ditch the cup" argument - I can identify with all the points you mentioned.

    Jim, funny you should say that! I emailed Mr. Jewitt after my last post here. At 5:15 his time (after hours), he responded - checking inventory for what's on hand, and will contact me in the morning!

    Again, feels like I'm on the right track here.

    Companies like Homestead Finishing are golden in this day and age. So is being able to get a quick coaching here!


    Thanks to all!

    Jeff

  10. #10
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    You can spray thick stuff like un-thinner lacquer and contact cement. Heat helps if you dare. They are a pain to clean but if your set up is good and you use your rig often you can leave it set up for weeks... months.... years.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  11. #11
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    If you're running 2k pressure with a Low Pressure tip, I'm not sure what the result would be. I'd put a Titan gauge (using one on my Graco pump) on the pump, put the pressure in the green zone (around 1k), and do some test spraying. Once you get the pressure right, write it down, and with the gauge you can go right to the starting point every time.

    Here's a video I put in the Bad Job Coming thread here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR9TCTSXyrk
    Last edited by Tom M King; 09-26-2022 at 9:50 PM.

  12. #12
    Tom - I like the video - good way to test, for sure. Based on what you're showing, I'll bet I was right there in the 6-800 range.
    Trouble is, I'm using a different product and fan shape is really not the issue. It simply agitates and foams the product. Evidently it's the chemistry/product formulation that makes it sensitive to the high pressure hydraulic atomization vs. pneumatic atomization. Water based finishes are just crazy finicky.

    jeff

  13. #13
    Maurice I pressurized siphon cups to spray contact. Drilled the cup and ran some low pressure in, its enough to deliver the material. I always over thinned contact not heating it, its irrelevant as the reducer flashes off. You can spray a lot of contact from a siphon cup or gravity.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    Maurice I pressurized siphon cups to spray contact. Drilled the cup and ran some low pressure in, its enough to deliver the material. I always over thinned contact not heating it, its irrelevant as the reducer flashes off. You can spray a lot of contact from a siphon cup or gravity.
    Thats a good tip! The pressure pot at the counter top shop holds 5 gallons of red glue. The tip of the spray gun hangs in a pot of thinner when not in use. It had no maintenance whatsoever during the two years I worked there other than dumping in red glue, 5 gallons at a time.

    Hot lacquer was at a different shop. I did not get to try the process, but got to see the results. It makes quick work of getting the coats built up.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  15. #15
    The tip of the spray gun hangs in a pot of thinner when not in use. It had no maintenance whatsoever during the two years I worked there other than dumping in red glue, 5 gallons at a time.
    You just described the way I used to work with solvent-based lacquers, particularly SW post-catalyzed T77 series. I know some who still run like this. Somedays I'm tempted to go back.

    I do enjoy the faster dry-times, slick powdery sanding features of most water based clears, and I tell myself I'm healthier using them.

    Jeff

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