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Thread: Touch-ups on Pigmented WB Lacquer (specifically EM6500)

  1. #1

    Touch-ups on Pigmented WB Lacquer (specifically EM6500)

    Hello all,

    I'm a finish carpenter in the beginning stages of learning to apply finishes for my side jobs. I have a Fuji Mini-Mite 4 and have been using Target Coatings HSF5000 + EM6500 so far on practice pieces for myself/family, with acceptable results (decent for an absolute beginner, but not nearly good enough to charge for it). When I bought the turbine, I was hoping/planning to do most of the finishing on site, since I was primarily working on site at the time. As a result, I planned on caulking and filling nail holes after primer and before the pigmented coats.

    Since then, I've shifted to mainly doing built-ins, and doing as much as possible in my "shop" (garage space I can work and store tools in, but not permanently set up like a true workshop), which is also a selling point in terms of being minimally invasive/disruptive to the homeowner. However, this means I would have to prefinish components, including moldings and applied panels/skins, then do any caulking/filling, and then touch-up the finish. I prefer to scribe instead of caulk and use glue/clamps in place of nails wherever possible, and 23 gauge nails wherever they'll hold, but still foresee a non-zero amount of touch-ups in my future. I'm concerned that brushing over a sprayed finish will make things worse, but I'm not confident using an airbrush or touch-up gun without masking, and if I'm masking the whole area off, I might as well bring the turbine and spray the final coat of finish in place.

    I'm also considering selling the turbine and using LVLP guns instead if I won't be spraying on site, but that's a topic for another thread.

    How do you handle post-install touch-ups (nail holes, caulked transitions to moldings or walls, etc.) on prefinished material?

  2. #2
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    Honestly, it's no different than had you used some other type of paint. Brushing isn't going to look the same, so doing what you are already doing to minimize things like fastener holes will reduce the need. And if you do need to make a meaningful repair, plan on brushing or padding on the entire component so "just one spot" doesn't look out of place. Little things are probably best handled like you would with vehicle touch up paint..tiny brush and "a little dab will do ya".
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Honestly, it's no different than had you used some other type of paint. Brushing isn't going to look the same, so doing what you are already doing to minimize things like fastener holes will reduce the need. And if you do need to make a meaningful repair, plan on brushing or padding on the entire component so "just one spot" doesn't look out of place. Little things are probably best handled like you would with vehicle touch up paint..tiny brush and "a little dab will do ya".
    Thanks, like I said I'm pretty inexperienced with the finishing side of things. I've installed plenty of prefinished cabinetry, but it usually came with a touchup kit for the 23 gauge holes, and caulking or floating drywall (if necessary) wasn't in my scope of work.

    Because of the "burn-in" I read about with TC lacquers, I was hoping there was a way to get seamless touchups, but it seems that's just wishful thinking on my part

  4. #4
    Recently testing some Sherwin Williams WB pigmented lacquer, which stated somewhere in the PDS that something in the neighborhood of 20-30% thinning was recommended for touch-up work. Assuming this is to aid flow out as one would presumably be using a small brush. I recommend asking the Target folks if a similar approach works with their product.
    FWIW

    jeff

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Wedge View Post

    Because of the "burn-in" I read about with TC lacquers, I was hoping there was a way to get seamless touchups, but it seems that's just wishful thinking on my part
    "Burn In" only allows subsequent finish to "become one" with the previously applied coat(s). It doesn't hide any kind of application marks. On small things, one can level and rub out to an even surface and sheen and the blemish would literally disappear. But that's not really practical for furniture, cabinets and built-ins most of the time, unfortunately.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    "Burn In" only allows subsequent finish to "become one" with the previously applied coat(s). It doesn't hide any kind of application marks. On small things, one can level and rub out to an even surface and sheen and the blemish would literally disappear. But that's not really practical for furniture, cabinets and built-ins most of the time, unfortunately.
    Yeah, doing more reading about it shows that it's mainly about preventing witness lines when sanding. In reading other threads on here, it seems like you're one of the most active/vocal guys using Target Coatings, so I have another question, if that's alright.

    Do you use the same needle/nozzle setup for the HSF5000 as the EM6500? The primer seems twice as thick as the pigmented lacquer, but the specs for both recommend a 1.8-2.0mm tip, as does Jeff in the comments section of this article:https://www.targetcoatings.com/2021/...ine-spray-gun/. I've been using a 1.8mm tip for both, and thinning the HSF5000 around 20% but the EM6500 only 5%. That works fine, but I wonder if buying a 2.0mm tip would let me thin the primer significantly less? I'm using the Fuji T75G with 3M PPS, so the cup is slightly pressurized, if that's a factor

    I've sprayed latex paint through the Fuji only once, thinned ~25%, but with a 2.3mm tip on an HVLP conversion gun, I only had to thin it 10% to get the same results. However, Fuji literature warns about larger orifices inhibiting atomization. My guess is that's less of an issue for primer, since it's being sanded anyway, and I would get better coverage with less thinning. What are your thoughts?

  7. #7
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    I find I have to work a little harder to get the HSF5000 to spray the way I want it to than with the EM6500. I use an HPLV conversion gun with the 3M PPS system which uses low pressure to "push" the material through my gun. I used the 1.5mm N/N for the HSF5000 as well as the SW Emerald I recently sprayed on a vanity project. Both the Target HSF5000 and EM6500 are thicker than the clears but the HSF5000 is a pretty stiff mixture! I personally do not like having to thin things very much, so I think it's reasonable to test spraying the high solid primer with the 2.0nn with your spray setup. This is really about "your gun" and finding the best setup for "your gun" and each material. You have to burn a little finish to work that our, but document it for future use once you have things dialed in to your liking.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Hmm for some reason my other post didn't go through. I just sprayed the HSF5000 and the EM6500 this weekend. I tried the 5000 with both a 2.0nn and a 1.5nn in my Fuji 4 stage thinned at 5%. It never atomized great, and I got some spitting with both needles. Not a big deal since they got sanded between coats. The EM6500 laid down nice with the 2.0 and will try the 1.5 today.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I find I have to work a little harder to get the HSF5000 to spray the way I want it to than with the EM6500. I use an HPLV conversion gun with the 3M PPS system which uses low pressure to "push" the material through my gun. I used the 1.5mm N/N for the HSF5000 as well as the SW Emerald I recently sprayed on a vanity project. Both the Target HSF5000 and EM6500 are thicker than the clears but the HSF5000 is a pretty stiff mixture! I personally do not like having to thin things very much, so I think it's reasonable to test spraying the high solid primer with the 2.0nn with your spray setup. This is really about "your gun" and finding the best setup for "your gun" and each material. You have to burn a little finish to work that our, but document it for future use once you have things dialed in to your liking.
    Is that the Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel?

  10. #10
    Dennis, I had to thin it more (15-20% IIRC) to get it to flow with the 1.8, and it shot pretty well at that point. Maybe 10% thinning with the 2.0mm N/N will be the sweet spot? I'll try it once I get the 2.0 and report back (probably next weekend)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Wedge View Post
    Is that the Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel?
    Yes, thick stuff, too.
    -----

    Interestingly related to this discussion, I actually used some HSF5000 and EM6500 today. But I brushed them both on. LOL (not a "fine woodworking" project and I used them because I had them) One coat of each, hitting the primer with a scuff of 320 to de-nub before putting one coat of the satin EM6500 on top. Both grey. It wouldn't pass a close inspection but "the thing" will be ten feet up in my new shop building.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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