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Thread: Honing Guide Questions

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Thanks for the continued feedback everyone.

    In lieu of starting a new thread, since it's a related topic and I'm sure you all have similar feedback, what lapping plate does everyone prefer for their waterstones? I was thinking about the DMT one from Lie Nielsen but didn't know if there were other options. Like everything I research, the reviews are all over the place, especially on Amazon.
    I just use an Atima 400 grit diamon stone.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Thanks for the continued feedback everyone.

    In lieu of starting a new thread, since it's a related topic and I'm sure you all have similar feedback, what lapping plate does everyone prefer for their waterstones? I was thinking about the DMT one from Lie Nielsen but didn't know if there were other options. Like everything I research, the reviews are all over the place, especially on Amazon.
    It really seems flat is the only absolute requirement. Seems like the majority of the sharpeners prefer the Atoma plates. You can spend more, e.g. the only complaint I heard about the DMT Dia-Flat is price and the Nano-Hone stuff, while well reviewed, makes it look inexpensive. Many people get by with generic diamond plates from China. My preference is the:

    Diamond Flattening Plate

    from JKI. It's cheaper, works well, and I completely trust Jon, the owner, to make sure it is of adequate quality to do the job well.

  3. #18
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    Late to the party but compelled to comment

    Regarding Honing Guides

    I had a cheap Eclipse copy (Shop Fox I think) and threw it away.

    I had the full kit from Veritas. The MKII with both sets of jaws (top and side clamp) plus both rollers. It's really nice. That said, it's pretty fussy and more complicated than it needs to be. I glued a thin leather pad to the top clamp jaws so it would hold the workpiece more securely. I wound up selling the whole setup.

    I bit the bullet and got a LN Guide. Kind of spendy but it just flat works. It was about the same as I had spent on all the Veritas MKII stuff. I got an extra set of jaws for spokeshave cutters. I made a little spacer board to establish cutting angles. The whole kit is super simple and works great.



    Regarding Stone Flatteners

    I was a long time "Scary Sharp" guy, using five grades of 3M abrasive film on glass. A while back I changed to a modified "Cosman Method" using a 300/1000 Trend Diamond Plate plus two Shaptons , a 6,000 and a 16,000. The Trend is on the left below. The 300 Side of the Trend plate is used to flatten the Shaptons occasionally and the 1000 side works great for establishing (or repairing) a primary edge. Again, it's a pretty simple setup but it's fast and works great.

    Last edited by Rob Luter; 09-20-2022 at 4:24 PM.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  4. #19
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    Thanks. I decided to give the Atoma 400 plate a try since Lee Valley had them for sale. 1/2 the price of the DMT at LN so I like that part. I’m sure any of them would be fine no more than I’ll actually be using it over the years in my hobby usage. Thanks again for all the feedback.

    Now on to picking a few bench chisels. Only kept a single Two Cherries chisel when I sold the shop so I’m starting from scratch here too. Just like the above, I’ll be looking at options rather than just running straight to LN to order. So far considering LN, Veritas, Pfiel, Two Cherries, Stanley Sweetheart 750 and Narex Richter. I liked the feel of the LN just fine but haven’t had a chance to checkout the others (other than the two cherries, but they are completely different feeling).
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-20-2022 at 5:58 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    ... Now on to picking a few bench chisels. ...
    Plenty of opinions on this! (In fact, it's mostly personal preference I think.)

    One recent thread where most options are mentioned is:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....f-User-Chisels

    Have fun!

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bassett View Post
    It really seems flat is the only absolute requirement. Seems like the majority of the sharpeners prefer the Atoma plates. You can spend more, e.g. the only complaint I heard about the DMT Dia-Flat is price and the Nano-Hone stuff, while well reviewed, makes it look inexpensive. Many people get by with generic diamond plates from China. My preference is the:

    Diamond Flattening Plate

    from JKI. It's cheaper, works well, and I completely trust Jon, the owner, to make sure it is of adequate quality to do the job well.
    I have used the same jig since 1962. I agree with Frank Klausz "your hands is the best jig" ( da bess chick). I have worn out a number of stones, but never used a flattening plate.

  7. #22
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    Nobody could ever tell how you hone your tools by looking at a finished product. Nobody really cares, either.

    When choosing your media, consider the need to be able to hone things other than plane irons and chisels. I've yet to see or hear of somebody going to town on an inshave with a $400 honing stone that gouges easily. But whatever. You can own two or three systems but that just really seems like a waste and not the way of the craftsman.

    "Sharp" is the deepest rabbit hole you'll ever run across in woodworking. Sharp's first cousin in tool steel -- 2nd worst rabbit hole. If you've come to the craft evenly mildly OCD, get out while you still can.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 09-21-2022 at 5:09 AM.

  8. #23
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    I had DMT plates and then tied an Atoma. I quickly got rid of the DMT ones and replaced them with Atoma. They just cut better.

  9. #24
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    haha I'm certain that my chisels with a single perfect mirror bevel work much better than the ones with several, slightly different bevels....

  10. #25
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    Mine work good enough for me like that anyway.

    I started with guides, and went back to them so my helpers could sharpen things. They were hopeless by hand, but can sharpen anything almost as good as I can with a guide. I hire people that no one else would hire, so they are not the best at a lot of things, but can sharpen a chisel with a guide.

    I only used the original Eclipse for a long time after I bought it new, and it still gets used more than any of the others.

    To answer the flattening question, I use the replacement Atoma sheets, 4x8" in 400 and 140 grit on a granite surface plate that sits on our sharpening sink counter.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Now on to picking a few bench chisels. Only kept a single Two Cherries chisel when I sold the shop so I’m starting from scratch here too. Just like the above, I’ll be looking at options rather than just running straight to LN to order. So far considering LN, Veritas, Pfiel, Two Cherries, Stanley Sweetheart 750 and Narex Richter. I liked the feel of the LN just fine but haven’t had a chance to checkout the others (other than the two cherries, but they are completely different feeling).
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bassett View Post
    Plenty of opinions on this! (In fact, it's mostly personal preference I think.)

    One recent thread where most options are mentioned is:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....f-User-Chisels

    Have fun!

    Narrowed my bench chisel choices down to the following list:

    Stanley Sweetheart 750 - around $25 each if you buy the 8 piece set
    Ashley Iles MK2 - around $36 each if you buy the 6 piece set
    Narex Richter Cryo - around $35 to $50 each as a set
    Lee Valley PM-V11 - $70 to $88 each individually
    Lee Nielsen - $95 each


    And, after reading a lot of reviews, watching tons of videos and exploring best pricing available on each option, the below was my thought process on eliminating choices and making a selection:

    Stanley Sweetheart 750 - Made in England. Unknown tool steel composition. Hornbeam handle. Excellent price point. Honestly, I eliminated it from my list due to the thickness of the edge/lands.
    Lie Nielson - Made in USA. A2 steel. Cryo-treated. Hornbeam handle. Eliminated them purely on cost. Previously owned a set and they were very nice. However, the cost per chisel has doubled in the past few years prompting me to try something else.
    Lee Valley PM-V11 - Made in Canada. PM-V11 steel. Torrefied maple handle. Eliminated again purely on cost. They look lovely, but are in the same ballpark cost wise as the LN chisels. May one day order one to compare but for now decided to pass.
    Narex Richter Cryo - Made in Czech Republic. Chrome Manganese steel. Cryo-treated. Ash handle. Not sure how Cr-Mn steel compares to A2/O1 but it appears to be well regarded. Based on my desire to find something cheaper than the LN/LV options that was still high quality, these made it to my final decision/elimination round.
    Ashley Iles MK2 - Made in Sheffield England. O1 steel. Bubinga handles. The reviews I read and the look of this chisel just captured my eye. It appears they corrected most of the items people didn't like in the earlier version. The 01 tool steel seems to have good feedback on it's ability to sharpen and hold an edge. The handles seem to be dense enough to handle some usage. And the price came in right at the sweet spot. Much lower than the LN/LV options and around the same price as the best pricing I could find on the Narex option.

    Without having them all in my hands to play with, this was a very tough decision process. I used other peoples experiences and reviews to guide me. I'm sure any choice amongst these 5 would have been an awesome decision but I'm going to be giving the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels a try. Ordered the 6 piece set from TFWW. I liked the fact that they have a 6-month return policy which should be plenty of time to spot any issues.

    In the long run, I'm sure these are going to be great chisels that will keep me from looking across the fence into the LN/LV pastures. But, as I expand my chisel collection again and look for the more specialty items, I'll be re-visiting each of these brands to see how their more specialized chisels compare. Thanks Sawmill Creek for the continued guidance and help.

    (These are my own opinions and YMMV)

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    Nobody could ever tell how you hone your tools by looking at a finished product. Nobody really cares, either.

    "Sharp" is the deepest rabbit hole you'll ever run across in woodworking. Sharp's first cousin in tool steel -- 2nd worst rabbit hole. If you've come to the craft evenly mildly OCD, get out while you still can.
    I couldn't agree more

  13. #28
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Narrowed my bench chisel choices down to the following list:

    Stanley Sweetheart 750 - around $25 each if you buy the 8 piece set
    Ashley Iles MK2 - around $36 each if you buy the 6 piece set
    Narex Richter Cryo - around $35 to $50 each as a set
    Lee Valley PM-V11 - $70 to $88 each individually
    Lee Nielsen - $95 each


    And, after reading a lot of reviews, watching tons of videos and exploring best pricing available on each option, the below was my thought process on eliminating choices and making a selection:

    Stanley Sweetheart 750 - Made in England. Unknown tool steel composition. Hornbeam handle. Excellent price point. Honestly, I eliminated it from my list due to the thickness of the edge/lands.
    Lie Nielson - Made in USA. A2 steel. Cryo-treated. Hornbeam handle. Eliminated them purely on cost. Previously owned a set and they were very nice. However, the cost per chisel has doubled in the past few years prompting me to try something else.
    Lee Valley PM-V11 - Made in Canada. PM-V11 steel. Torrefied maple handle. Eliminated again purely on cost. They look lovely, but are in the same ballpark cost wise as the LN chisels. May one day order one to compare but for now decided to pass.
    Narex Richter Cryo - Made in Czech Republic. Chrome Manganese steel. Cryo-treated. Ash handle. Not sure how Cr-Mn steel compares to A2/O1 but it appears to be well regarded. Based on my desire to find something cheaper than the LN/LV options that was still high quality, these made it to my final decision/elimination round.
    Ashley Iles MK2 - Made in Sheffield England. O1 steel. Bubinga handles. The reviews I read and the look of this chisel just captured my eye. It appears they corrected most of the items people didn't like in the earlier version. The 01 tool steel seems to have good feedback on it's ability to sharpen and hold an edge. The handles seem to be dense enough to handle some usage. And the price came in right at the sweet spot. Much lower than the LN/LV options and around the same price as the best pricing I could find on the Narex option.

    Without having them all in my hands to play with, this was a very tough decision process. I used other peoples experiences and reviews to guide me. I'm sure any choice amongst these 5 would have been an awesome decision but I'm going to be giving the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels a try. Ordered the 6 piece set from TFWW. I liked the fact that they have a 6-month return policy which should be plenty of time to spot any issues.

    In the long run, I'm sure these are going to be great chisels that will keep me from looking across the fence into the LN/LV pastures. But, as I expand my chisel collection again and look for the more specialty items, I'll be re-visiting each of these brands to see how their more specialized chisels compare. Thanks Sawmill Creek for the continued guidance and help.

    (These are my own opinions and YMMV)
    Greg, I have no doubt that you will enjoy the AI chisels. My reply is that you excluded one set of chisels owing to their high lands. I have a simple fix for that, and FWW magazine will be publishing it in their next edition as a Shop Tip. This is my original article, which they are not using: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...ilChisels.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Greg, I have no doubt that you will enjoy the AI chisels. My reply is that you excluded one set of chisels owing to their high lands. I have a simple fix for that, and FWW magazine will be publishing it in their next edition as a Shop Tip. This is my original article, which they are not using: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...ilChisels.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Thanks Derek. Excellent article. I always place high value on your comments, input and opinions. In this case, I did for a brief moment think about the Stanley’s and then modifying them along the lines of your approach, but I do not have a good option for the required grinding and quite frankly I was afraid of messing them up. Your article certainly makes me feel empowered to go try it, but I don’t have a belt grinder at this time so I’m probably still better off sticking with a chisel that has a thinner land from the start.

    One thing I will say though, my prior LN chisels had such thin lands that they were sharp enough to slice your hands during use. The edge on them had to be knocked down a bit for me to safely use them. LOL


    Next up on my list is to figure out how to get a proper wood vise in my space without building a whole bench. What I’m thinking right now is to remove the metal cross brace on the front of my Armor bench and replace with a wood apron. Then install something like a Veritas face vice. This bench is serving as my sanding station, but given the pre-drilled dog holes, it can easily work double duty for other uses. There are a number of options to secure wood on the top for plane use, but the vise would let me clamp wood for edge work. I’m wondering if the Veritas twin screw design would work as a face vise as then it could also hold wood for dovetails too. As my space develops, I may be able to work out floor space to build a free standing bench down the road, but this would get me something to use now. Anyway, still thinking this through.

    C2388143-0BFD-47F3-BA94-13E0E45C3CE7.jpg

    AEF0FD2C-6AC9-4172-93DB-C9B8675ED41C.jpg
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-22-2022 at 7:26 AM.

  15. #30
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    I’m wondering if the Veritas twin screw design would work as a face vise as then it could also hold wood for dovetails too.
    Greg, the twin screw will work as you ask, however the value of a dedicated dovetailing vise (e.g. Moxon-style) lies with it raising the work piece to a comfortable height for sawing (unless you plan to sit and saw).

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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