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Thread: Honing Guide Questions

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Greg, the twin screw will work as you ask, however the value of a dedicated dovetailing vise (e.g. Moxon-style) lies with it raising the work piece to a comfortable height for sawing (unless you plan to sit and saw).

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Good point. Might as well stick with a normal face vise for the front and then build/buy a Moxon vise for the bench top when needed. Thanks for that just before bedtime post. I'm just getting my morning going over here in Florida. LOL

  2. #32
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    Got the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels today and gotta say, I don’t love them. I didn’t remove the shipping tip protection wax stuff, but the blades look to be well made and the handles look really nice. Don’t really like the ferrules as the brass bells out at the blade end and rubs on my hand and they just don’t feel well balanced in my hand. As much as it kills me, I’m thinking of returning them before use so that they don’t incur any damage. I don’t know how to explain the odd feel to the balance other than the 2 cherries chisel I still have and the LN chisels I had before felt better balanced in hand and in use.

    I do think these would be okay for just chopping, but the balance feel comes more into play with paring and other more finesse uses. Don’t know what to do but again if they don’t feel right in my hand, they don’t feel right. Ugh.

    EDIT: Took some time since posting this earlier to play with them along side my 2 cherries chisel. I think what I’m feeling is a very handle heavy balance on the AI chisels. Makes them feel fine for holding upright to hammer and chop, but when you grab the blade end to do something more intricate, the handle weight makes them feel odd to me. The 2 cherries handle is much lighter feeling. The other piece is the handle shape I think. The AI handle bulges out and is a thicker handle and I guess my preference is towards the thinner handles or ones that have a different shape. The ferrule on the 2 cherries is much more slim and fitted as well. However, I don’t really like the 2 cherries full polish and the thicker lands. The AI had an advantage here. Not sure what I’m going to do still as I’m debating if I just try to live with them, or if I’m better off returning them and getting something I know will more more comfortable in use. I feel like the better ergonomics, balance and comfortable fit is important though. Maybe I’m crazy. Do you get used to different chisel styles? Or does a better fitting, more comfortable in use chisel help produce better results? Or am I over thinking this. LOL. Thanks.




    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Narrowed my bench chisel choices down to the following list:

    Stanley Sweetheart 750 - around $25 each if you buy the 8 piece set
    Ashley Iles MK2 - around $36 each if you buy the 6 piece set
    Narex Richter Cryo - around $35 to $50 each as a set
    Lee Valley PM-V11 - $70 to $88 each individually
    Lee Nielsen - $95 each


    And, after reading a lot of reviews, watching tons of videos and exploring best pricing available on each option, the below was my thought process on eliminating choices and making a selection:

    Stanley Sweetheart 750 - Made in England. Unknown tool steel composition. Hornbeam handle. Excellent price point. Honestly, I eliminated it from my list due to the thickness of the edge/lands.
    Lie Nielson - Made in USA. A2 steel. Cryo-treated. Hornbeam handle. Eliminated them purely on cost. Previously owned a set and they were very nice. However, the cost per chisel has doubled in the past few years prompting me to try something else.
    Lee Valley PM-V11 - Made in Canada. PM-V11 steel. Torrefied maple handle. Eliminated again purely on cost. They look lovely, but are in the same ballpark cost wise as the LN chisels. May one day order one to compare but for now decided to pass.
    Narex Richter Cryo - Made in Czech Republic. Chrome Manganese steel. Cryo-treated. Ash handle. Not sure how Cr-Mn steel compares to A2/O1 but it appears to be well regarded. Based on my desire to find something cheaper than the LN/LV options that was still high quality, these made it to my final decision/elimination round.
    Ashley Iles MK2 - Made in Sheffield England. O1 steel. Bubinga handles. The reviews I read and the look of this chisel just captured my eye. It appears they corrected most of the items people didn't like in the earlier version. The 01 tool steel seems to have good feedback on it's ability to sharpen and hold an edge. The handles seem to be dense enough to handle some usage. And the price came in right at the sweet spot. Much lower than the LN/LV options and around the same price as the best pricing I could find on the Narex option.

    Without having them all in my hands to play with, this was a very tough decision process. I used other peoples experiences and reviews to guide me. I'm sure any choice amongst these 5 would have been an awesome decision but I'm going to be giving the Ashley Iles MK2 chisels a try. Ordered the 6 piece set from TFWW. I liked the fact that they have a 6-month return policy which should be plenty of time to spot any issues.

    In the long run, I'm sure these are going to be great chisels that will keep me from looking across the fence into the LN/LV pastures. But, as I expand my chisel collection again and look for the more specialty items, I'll be re-visiting each of these brands to see how their more specialized chisels compare. Thanks Sawmill Creek for the continued guidance and help.

    (These are my own opinions and YMMV)
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-24-2022 at 6:56 PM.

  3. #33
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    Chisels are a very personal thing. That’s why I always recommend trying just one of a new chisel and trying multiple brands/styles to see what you like. You can usually sell them for as much or almost as much as you bought them for.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wilkins View Post
    Chisels are a very personal thing. That’s why I always recommend trying just one of a new chisel and trying multiple brands/styles to see what you like. You can usually sell them for as much or almost as much as you bought them for.
    This was my reasoning of mostly buying only socket chisels. It was fairly easy to make my own handles to my liking. There are many makers represented in my chisels. Only a couple of brands (Buck Bros & Witherby) were easily obtainable to be eventually acquired in multiple sizes to make a set. There are a many makers like Greenlee & Union Hardware that produced very nice tools.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #35
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    There website says free returns for 6 months so I’m going to give them a little more time and see if my opinion changes. They are really nice looking chisels and I’m wondering if it makes more sense to keep this set as a general purpose set and add one or two of other flavors for specific tasks as the need arises.
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-24-2022 at 9:35 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    There website says free returns for 6 months so I’m going to give them a little more time and see if my opinion changes. They are really nice looking chisels and I’m wondering if it makes more sense to keep this set as a general purpose set and add one or two of other flavors for specific tasks as the need arises.
    Well, I fondled them all weekend and my opinion didn't change. Just do not like the feel and can't decide if its the balance or the handle or what. Also, the ferules were very irregular and flared out towards the blade and many of the chisels were offset and not centered in the handle. Regardless, they were unused and still had their protective tip coating. TFWW happily took them back and they went out via fedex this afternoon.

    I've read the metal comparison and chisel articles on Derek Cohen website and the PM-V11 metal appears to be far superior to the A2 and O1 offerings, but I think I'm going with the LN based on my prior usage. Since they are much pricier, I'll only buy a few initially instead of the 7 Ashley Iles just returned. Will start with a 1/4, 3/8, 5/8 and 3/4 set as I already have the 1/2 in 2 cherries. I know I’ll need other sizes and types along the way but this will get me a basic 5 chisel setup to get started.
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-26-2022 at 6:36 PM.

  7. #37
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    My experience with A2 is it is more difficult to sharpen and if you like a low angle it is more prone to chipping.

    PM-v11 is a bit more difficult to sharpen but my oilstones will work on it. A2 needs water stones or diamond stones.

    O1 works well for me though there is a lot of variation from the differences in various formulations. I like my Hock O1 blades until it is time to sharpen them. Their formulation seems to give them a smoother wear profile than older O1 blades. Before the shavings start getting funky the blade has usually worn to the point of needing to be ground a bit. My older O1 blades would usually chip to give a warning it was time to hone.

    This just goes to show, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #38
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    I agree, very tough to wade through this stuff. Tougher behind the keyboard than in use. LN used to offer their chisel in O1 as did LV. Wonder why they both stopped? And LN isn’t offering anything smaller than 1/4” right now either so if I want something that small I’ll have to look at the LV anyway.

    Shame the LN isn’t available with PM-V11. That might just be the best of all worlds (to me anyway). LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    My experience with A2 is it is more difficult to sharpen and if you like a low angle it is more prone to chipping.

    PM-v11 is a bit more difficult to sharpen but my oilstones will work on it. A2 needs water stones or diamond stones.

    O1 works well for me though there is a lot of variation from the differences in various formulations. I like my Hock O1 blades until it is time to sharpen them. Their formulation seems to give them a smoother wear profile than older O1 blades. Before the shavings start getting funky the blade has usually worn to the point of needing to be ground a bit. My older O1 blades would usually chip to give a warning it was time to hone.

    This just goes to show, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    jtk
    Last edited by Greg Parrish; 09-26-2022 at 7:50 PM.

  9. #39
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    Personally, I wouldn’t get too hung up on the steel types. I’m not a metallurgist, but between my 40 chisels of vintage American smiths, Japanese smiths, pmv11, marples, and Dewalt there’s not much difference that 45 seconds of sharpening won’t rectify. The pmv11 and Japanese chisels are definitely harder and last a bit longer, but it’s not like you sharpen them once a year and the others every weekend. The marples and Dewalt chisels blunt the quickest of the lot, and it is noticeable. The rest have less noticeable difference between. If you really want a performance difference, I’d focus more on style. A mortise chisel, paring chisel, dovetail etc. I would go with what looks good to you and feels good. I dont think you will observe much practical difference in the usability between the different steels.

  10. #40
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    Patrick makes an important point:

    it’s not like you sharpen them once a year and the others every weekend.
    and
    If you really want a performance difference, I’d focus more on style. A mortise chisel, paring chisel, dovetail etc. I would go with what looks good to you and feels good.
    Using a proper chisel for the job at hand is important in my world. A mortise chisel is going to be a pain at paring dovetails, just like a light paring chisel isn't the best choice for banging out a few dozen mortises.

    Looks can be important, to me the feel is more important. I do not like using tools that are uncomfortable in my hands. Some of my tools are on the ugly side and that doesn't bother me.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post

    Using a proper chisel for the job at hand is important in my world. A mortise chisel is going to be a pain at paring dovetails, just like a light paring chisel isn't the best choice for banging out a few dozen mortises.

    Looks can be important, to me the feel is more important. I do not like using tools that are uncomfortable in my hands. Some of my tools are on the ugly side and that doesn't bother me.

    jtk
    Once again, I find myself agreeing with Jim

    I also prefer socket chisels and semi-collect a couple select older manufacturers.
    I usually clean up the often mushroomed socket, just until it can hold a handle securely. I turn handles with little frills that fit my hand.
    Handles that are tool small in diameter and/or length can cause cramping and hand fatigue.
    I find that it's more important to use a comfortable tool fit for the job. rather than simply a name brand or high-priced model alone. IMO, it can improve your skill more quickly if your tool is comfortable to use.
    JMHO

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Weber View Post

    I find that it's more important to use a comfortable tool fit for the job. rather than simply a name brand or high-priced model alone. IMO, it can improve your skill more quickly if your tool is comfortable to use.
    JMHO
    An uncomfortable or awkward tool tends to end up not being used.

    A tool that feels good in the hand will have its owner seeking tasks for it to do.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    A tool that feels good in the hand will have its owner seeking tasks for it to do.

    jtk
    That's a good quote

  14. #44
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    I got great advice from people in this forum to try hand sharpening my plane blades after having a very frustrating experience trying to use a honing guide. I found that hand sharpening is quicker and produces better results. The thread was titled “sharpening: what am I doing wrong”. YMMV.

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