Dovetail waste help sought

[Jason Buresh]

Someone wrote that good dovetails require practice. I think that is nonsense - I never practice. What I do is apply rules that involve release cuts and secure boundaries.

I would like to respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, dovetails, or any other joinery for that matter, all comes down to how well you can perform the fundamentals. Sawing to lines, layout of the joint, squareness of the stock. All these things contribute to the quality of your joint.

Sure there are guides and other techniques that can help, but no saw guide is going to help with a cupped board or poor layout.

I believe the best way to learn is repetition. The only way to do that is through practice.

A craftsman of your skill level, which I deeply respect, has these fundamentals mastered. Cutting a dovetail may not need to be practiced for someone of your caliber because you can repeatedly perform all the tasks accurately from your years of experience.

Aaron Franklin of Franklin BBQ in Austin Texas, the highest rated brisket in the country, said the only way to make good BBQ is by making bad BBQ first

[Jim Koepke]

Aaron Franklin of Franklin BBQ in Austin Texas, the highest rated brisket in the country, said the only way to make good BBQ is by making bad BBQ first

Another way of saying that is one has to learn from their mistakes.

People who haven't made mistakes probably haven't made much else. --not sure who said that

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I also disagree. It takes practice for some people. For others maybe not. For me it took and still takes much practice. I have searched for a silver bullet but for my time and way of working, none exists. Ymmv.

[James Pallas]

I don’t think you call it practice. More like a little warm up like a little shoot around before a basketball game. Just to make sure you’re on your game. It is especially so if you have changed something, a new or sharpened saw different bench height, things like that. Even different shoes can put you off a little. A chisel with a steeper bevel can put you past a baseline very quickly. That muscle memory is a very real thing.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

What I am saying is that you have to consider what you must do. It is possible to break the task down to much smaller parts than you realise. Working with each part makes the task so much simpler, easier, and leads to accurate work. One can practice … and practice mistakes and repeat poor technique. That will not move you forward.

It is not so much about practice, but about practicing correct technique.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

I find I do need the practice as I tend to switch back and forth between dovetails, and Finger/Box Joints....so, each time, that first corner might look a little..rough...so...yes practice do help...

[Jason Buresh]

What I am saying is that you have to consider what you must do. It is possible to break the task down to much smaller parts than you realise. Working with each part makes the task so much simpler, easier, and leads to accurate work. One can practice … and practice mistakes and repeat poor technique. That will not move you forward.

It is not so much about practice, but about practicing correct technique.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I 100% agree it is more about practicing correct technique.

But you are failing to take into account experience. You can break down a task and memorize proper technique but muscle memory, fluidity, and confidence can only be gained through experience and practice.

There isn't a sports team or athlete that doesn't go through workouts, training, and practice before competing. Musicians and singers have to practice songs before going on stage. Surgeons use simulators and practice dummies before cutting open a patient. Even historically in the trades people started out as apprentices and journeymen before becoming master craftsman.

The more experience one has, the less one has to rely on practicing the fundamentals before attempting a particular task, but it is unrealistic to expect perfection without practice.

I agree it may be more beneficial to practice cutting plumb and square with a saw before attempting a dovetail, but even then when you go to cut a dovetail you have to hold the saw at angles, and there is no denying that muscle memory and experience can help improve your craftsmanship.

[Derek Cohen]

Jason, we will agree to disagree. We way I see it is that many are told to practice, practice, practice. Now I agree that practice is needed, but we amateurs may go for a spell between opportunities for (say) dovetailing. Many use this as a reason not to advance their skills, saying "what's the point - I do not do it often enough". My view is more positive, and probably appeals more to those with a little adventurousness. That is, each joint requires basic operations, which rely more on recognition of the steps than actual practice, per se. It is analytic rather than emotional. By-the-way, I do not cut dovetails all the time. The opportunity to do so is as much as the next person.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jason Buresh]

Jason, we will agree to disagree. We way I see it is that many are told to practice, practice, practice. Now I agree that practice is needed, but we amateurs may go for a spell between opportunities for (say) dovetailing. Many use this as a reason not to advance their skills, saying "what's the point - I do not do it often enough". My view is more positive, and probably appeals more to those with a little adventurousness. That is, each joint requires basic operations, which rely more on recognition of the steps than actual practice, per se. It is analytic rather than emotional. By-the-way, I do not cut dovetails all the time. The opportunity to do so is as much as the next person.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Thanks for the clarification! After reading I don't think we are so far apart. I realize now I made it sound like I was suggesting that someone cut dovetails in every piece of scrap that passes through the shop to learn.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that if you are new to cutting dovetails or even if you haven't cut them in a while or often, even if you understand the basics and steps of the joint there should be no shame in cutting a practice joint or even a warm up before starting your actual project.

And the more experience one has with their tools or basic techniques the less necessary it is to practice.

Some of my favorite time in the shop has been familiarizing myself with my tools too. Flattening a piece of scrap with my plane or sawing to lines. Being able to practice on a piece of wood without the pressure of it being used for a project eliminates the stress of making mistakes and gives you the experience without the risk.

[Jim Koepke]

there should be no shame in cutting a practice joint or even a warm up before starting your actual project.

As mentioned before, one thing noticed during my projects was the dovetails improved from the ones first to last ones cut.

One time a piece of 1X4 scrap was cut into two pieces and used for dovetail cutting. This did help me "warm up" to better dovetails as they were cut, examined, then cut off of the 1X4 pieces, dated, tossed into a box and then repeating the process. During the colder months they also were a good "warm up" when they were tossed into the wood stove.

The one time practice caused me to look at my mistakes, diagnose them and then correct them on the next set of dovetails cut. It did help to better understand the process of cutting the joint and improved my dovetail cutting since.

Now, if dovetails haven't been cut for a while it helps me to cut a few "warm up" joints to get my mind aligned.

This works for me. Others may find that focused thought on cutting a joint during their morning coffee or tea works for them.

Just like some of us learn from books and internet videos, others find taking a class from an instructor has helped them enormously.

Different paths to the same destination.

jtk

[steven c newman]

A "Practice" Piece..
Keepsake Box,corner details.JPG

Would this be a "Learning Curve"?
Keepsake Box, curves.JPG