Bevel-up smoothing planes

[Jason White]

Debating whether to order the Lie Nielsen (low angle) 164 smoothing plane or the Veritas low-angle smoother.

I have large hands, so I'm leaning toward the Veritas. But the Lie Nielsen looks like it might be good, too.

Thoughts?
1-164-iso-2020.jpg05P2501-veritas-low-angle-smooth-plane-a2-f-0067.jpg

[Rafael Herrera]

Not the kind of thought you asked, but handled tools like planes and saws are designed to be gripped with just your lower three fingers, in a sort of pistol grip fashion. If your hands are so large that that is not a comfortable grip, then maybe these type of planes may suit you better.

There's a grip that does not require wrapping your fingers around the plane handle, I've used it on small and large planes like a #7. See it in this video: https://youtu.be/1bhh6kxXZOQ?t=260

wrap_grip.jpg

[Prashun Patel]

I had the Veritas bevel up smoother and later traded for a small bevel up smoother. I can vouch for the build quality on the Veritas.

Sorry to volunteer more information but...

I also own the Veritas bevel up jack and bevel up jointer. Both are indispensible. I also like the small smoother for things north of a block plane but south of a #4.
But for my money, I think a better purchase is the LN#4. It just performs more reliably for me as a smoother than did the bevel up smoother.

[Jim Koepke]

The LN is out of stock. I agree with Prashun, a bevel down plane with a chip breaker makes a better smoother in many cases.

If your plan is to work with a higher angle or work end grain the Veritas may be the plane to have and maybe a few extra blades. Especially if you don't want to wait.

On another aspect of the choices, PMv-11 seems to be a much nicer steel for blades. (in my opinion)

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Debating whether to order the Lie Nielsen (low angle) 164 smoothing plane or the Veritas low-angle smoother.

I have large hands, so I'm leaning toward the Veritas. But the Lie Nielsen looks like it might be good, too.

Thoughts?
1-164-iso-2020.jpg05P2501-veritas-low-angle-smooth-plane-a2-f-0067.jpg

Hi Jason

While I now predominantly use and prefer BD planes, such as the Veritas Customs, and agree with others that a closed up chipbreaker is superior to a BU planes in controlling tearout in interlocked and reversing grain, BU planes remain among the most versatile and easiest to set up and use. I had possibly more time with BU planes in the past than most others, and they worked so well back then, that one must not forget this. They continue to have exceptional potential.

My favourite two BU bench planes are the Veritas Small Smoother, and the Veritas Large Smoother. I had the Veritas LA Smoother, which is the one you ask about, but sold this years ago as the other two made it redundant. Of the two mentioned, I am currently using the Small on boxes. It is like a block plane on steroids. What I particularly appreciate about these planes is that it is so easy to take the very finest of shavings - there are times when one needs to do just a smidgeon of tuning - and the feedback while doing so is the best of all plane types.

The Veritas and LN BU planes are built to the same level. What distinguishes the Medium from the #164 are the fine tuning features of the Veritas planes, such as depth stop for the mouth (which is easier to adjust), and the side screws, which make resetting the blade easy after if is sharpened. The LAS also has a proper Norris-type blade adjuster, while the #164 has only blade projection. The Veritas handles came under fire many years back for being so upright, but this did make a positive difference in use. In any event, Veritas now offer a range of handles to fit their BU and BD planes.

An old photo of the Small and LN #3 …



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jason White]

Hi, Derek. I've read several of your reviews in the past and they've been most helpful. In fact, I purchased a 4-1/2 "custom" smoother base on your review of the Veritas custom planes. I do love it!

Have you spent any time with the Lie Nielsen 164? I don't see a review for it on your website, but I'm curious to know what your impressions are.

Hi Jason

While I now predominantly use and prefer BD planes, such as the Veritas Customs, and agree with others that a closed up chipbreaker is superior to a BU planes in controlling tearout in interlocked and reversing grain, BU planes remain among the most versatile and easiest to set up and use. I had possibly more time with BU planes in the past than most others, and they worked so well back then, that one must not forget this. They continue to have exceptional potential.

My favourite two BU bench planes are the Veritas Small Smoother, and the Veritas Large Smoother. I had the Veritas Medium, which is the one you ask about, but sold this years ago as the other two made it redundant. Of the two mentioned, I am currently using the Small on boxes. It is like a block plane on steroids. What I particularly appreciate about these planes is that it is so easy to take the very finest of shavings - there are times when one needs to do just a smidgeon of tuning - and the feedback while doing so is the best of all plane types.

The Veritas and LN BU planes are built to the same level. What distinguishes the Medium from the #164 are the fine tuning features of the Veritas planes, such as depth stop for the mouth (which is easier to adjust), and the side screws, which make resetting the blade easy after if is sharpened. The Medium also has a proper Norris-type blade adjuster, while the #164 has knly blade projection. The Veritas handles came under fire many years back for being so upright, but this did make a positive difference in use. In any event, Veritas now offer a range of handles to fit their BU and BD planes.

An old photo of the Small and LN #3 …



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Keegan Shields]

Jason,

I've had a LN 164 for about a year and its great. Nice low center of gravity and the blade is easy to pop out, hone (35 deg), and re-insert. Its a very handy plane and comfortable in my hands (large glove size). I prefer the LN handle shape and angle over the Veritas small BU smoother and Veritas LA Jack handles. Probably comes down to personal preference.

For any serious wild grain or tear-out issues, I use the LN #4 1/2 as I seem to get better results with the close set chip breaker (after lots of help from the experts here).

Hopefully one day I can find a bronze LN #3.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Jason

I have used the LN #164, and found it very similar in feel and performance to the Veritas LA Smoother. I recall a review by Lynn Mangiameli, around 15+ years ago, when he compared the two planes. Lynn mentioned that the LN had the thicker blade, 3/16" vs the 1/8" thick of the Veritas. It did not make any difference to performance. Blades around 1/8" are already overkill, anyway. Bottom line: both are excellent planes.

I can speak more about the Veritas LA, since I owned one. What I can add is that I sold it because I also have the LA Jack. One thing that the LA Smoother can do that the BU Smoother cannot do, is work on a shooting board.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Grund]

Hopefully one day I can find a bronze LN #3.

I think if I recall, couple weeks ago John Keeton said LN told him they are planning on releasing a batch of bronze in the fall and iron in the spring. I could be backwards on that though.

[Jason White]

Thanks so much, Derek!

Hi Jason

I have used the LN #164, and found it very similar in feel and performance to the Veritas LA Smoother. I recall a review by Lynn Mangiameli, around 15+ years ago, when he compared the two planes. Lynn mentioned that the LN had the thicker blade, 3/16" vs the 1/8" thick of the Veritas. It did not make any difference to performance. Blades around 1/8" are already overkill, anyway. Bottom line: both are excellent planes.

I can speak more about the Veritas LA, since I owned one. What I can add is that I sold it because I also have the LA Jack. One thing that the LA Smoother can do that the BU Smoother cannot do, is work on a shooting board.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jason White]

Great to hear. Thanks, Keegan!

Jason,

I've had a LN 164 for about a year and its great. Nice low center of gravity and the blade is easy to pop out, hone (35 deg), and re-insert. Its a very handy plane and comfortable in my hands (large glove size). I prefer the LN handle shape and angle over the Veritas small BU smoother and Veritas LA Jack handles. Probably comes down to personal preference.

For any serious wild grain or tear-out issues, I use the LN #4 1/2 as I seem to get better results with the close set chip breaker (after lots of help from the experts here).

Hopefully one day I can find a bronze LN #3.

[Charles Guest]

You need a jack, jointer, and smoother all bevel down. Maybe an extra iron or two with a different profile on the end. Buy the best you can afford. Anything more than that is just conspicuous consumption that has nothing to do with woodworking. At some point you'll need some wood. There's one thing, and one thing only, that makes woodworking fun and "efficient" and that's a standing inventory of material. If you have to go shopping every time you need a board or two all you'll end up doing is sharpening, dusting off tools, and tweaking your shop layout. If you're not jonesing for wood instead of the latest shiny gewgaw, your trajectory is pretty much set in stone. Whenever you think about buying a plane or something else you likely don't need, call your favorite lumber supplier and spend the same amount you were going to spend on the tool, but do it on wood. Rinse and repeat. If this advice is like nails on a blackboard, well, we'll see you in the classified section when you start selling off the inventory of your museum of unused tools.

[Jason White]

Thanks for the input.

You need a jack, jointer, and smoother all bevel down. Maybe an extra iron or two with a different profile on the end. Buy the best you can afford. Anything more than that is just conspicuous consumption that has nothing to do with woodworking. At some point you'll need some wood. There's one thing, and one thing only, that makes woodworking fun and "efficient" and that's a standing inventory of material. If you have to go shopping every time you need a board or two all you'll end up doing is sharpening, dusting off tools, and tweaking your shop layout. If you're not jonesing for wood instead of the latest shiny gewgaw, your trajectory is pretty much set in stone. Whenever you think about buying a plane or something else you likely don't need, call your favorite lumber supplier and spend the same amount you were going to spend on the tool, but do it on wood. Rinse and repeat. If this advice is like nails on a blackboard, well, we'll see you in the classified section when you start selling off the inventory of your museum of unused tools.

[Prashun Patel]

My thought too. Well replied.

[John Lanciani]

You need a jack, jointer, and smoother all bevel down. Maybe an extra iron or two with a different profile on the end. Buy the best you can afford. Anything more than that is just conspicuous consumption that has nothing to do with woodworking. At some point you'll need some wood. There's one thing, and one thing only, that makes woodworking fun and "efficient" and that's a standing inventory of material. If you have to go shopping every time you need a board or two all you'll end up doing is sharpening, dusting off tools, and tweaking your shop layout. If you're not jonesing for wood instead of the latest shiny gewgaw, your trajectory is pretty much set in stone. Whenever you think about buying a plane or something else you likely don't need, call your favorite lumber supplier and spend the same amount you were going to spend on the tool, but do it on wood. Rinse and repeat. If this advice is like nails on a blackboard, well, we'll see you in the classified section when you start selling off the inventory of your museum of unused tools.

Some folks travel to get to a destination, some because they enjoy the journey, and still others because they are wandering souls. None are more noble nor less worthy than the others.