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Thread: What 8" jointer would you get and why?

  1. #31
    I would buy a used 12” + jointer and go HSS or Tersa style if the machine already had it.

    Have you ever used a jointer with a helical cutterhead? I don’t understand why you’d want or need this on a jointer as a milling machine. Planer, sure I can see the appeal. Often times the helical knives leave a slightly scalloped surface which seems like it would be terrible for edge jointing for edge glue ups and need an extra step to get rid of the scallops in prep for a tight glue joint.

    I have a 12” Oliver with Tersa style indexed cutterhead and can go straight from the machine to edge glue ups with very very clean edges.

    I used to own a nice 8” invicta DJ-20 and have also used a DJ-15 with Shelix for edge jointing and I’ll take the 12” + with straight knives everyday. I paid 1/3 to 1/2 the price for a new Powermatic 8” Helical machine for my used 12” with Tersa head about 4 years ago. Deals are out there on used machines; I see them frequently. You just have to know where to look, look everyday and be ready to pounce when the right machine/price/location pops up.

    You don’t need a new jointer or a helical head, just a good one and long beds, mass and wider cutterhead is really what makes a difference on a jointer, IMO. That, and fence that holds 90*.
    Still waters run deep.

  2. #32
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    Your general area could be helpful. We might be able to steer you towards something that isn't listed etc. For example I found a 16" Grizzly when I searched.

  3. #33
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    Powermatic got my vote. My 6" is great.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell View Post
    I would buy a used 12” + jointer and go HSS or Tersa style if the machine already had it.

    Have you ever used a jointer with a helical cutterhead? I don’t understand why you’d want or need this on a jointer as a milling machine. Planer, sure I can see the appeal. Often times the helical knives leave a slightly scalloped surface which seems like it would be terrible for edge jointing for edge glue ups and need an extra step to get rid of the scallops in prep for a tight glue joint.

    I have a 12” Oliver with Tersa style indexed cutterhead and can go straight from the machine to edge glue ups with very very clean edges.

    I used to own a nice 8” invicta DJ-20 and have also used a DJ-15 with Shelix for edge jointing and I’ll take the 12” + with straight knives everyday. I paid 1/3 to 1/2 the price for a new Powermatic 8” Helical machine for my used 12” with Tersa head about 4 years ago. Deals are out there on used machines; I see them frequently. You just have to know where to look, look everyday and be ready to pounce when the right machine/price/location pops up.

    You don’t need a new jointer or a helical head, just a good one and long beds, mass and wider cutterhead is really what makes a difference on a jointer, IMO. That, and fence that holds 90*.
    I upgraded my Jet jointer to a helical head and would NEVER go back to straight knives. Scallops? How fast do you have to feed to attain that result? I get excellent surface finish off the jointer. The noise reduction is worth it by itself. The feed resistance is much lower. In the unfortunate instance you miss a staple or something if it does damage an insert or two you can be up and going again in less than 5 minutes. Try that with blades. Figured wood with straight knives? Good luck.

    I agree if he can locate used that is usually a better value. As others have said jointers aren't complex machines and not difficult to figure out if it's all it should be.

  5. #35
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    I drool over those who are able to find used tools that are in good shape and reasonably priced. I watched out local used tool market for about a year. The pictures showed power tools that had been abused and prices were often at new tool price. I quit looking.

    I purchased a Grizzly G0490X and other than removing covers to check the tightness on the set screws in the pulleys shortly after buying it. It has performed flawlessly.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  6. #36
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    I inherited my fathers 8" Jet jointer that he paid $150 about 20 years ago. The fence would loosen up during use which is why it was so cheap. It took us about a day to go through it back then and fix the problem which ended up being some rough castings. After smoothing out the castings the fence has been fine ever sense.

    Before inheriting my fathers Jet jointer I had a Harbor Freight 6" jointer that I purchased new about 30 years ago (back before they had local stores). It is one of the very few machines I have purchased new. That stupid jointer always got the job done and did a good job in the process which made paying to upgrade it very hard to justify. Both of these pieces of Chinese iron had flat planer tables and worked great with little attention.

    My instinct would be to look at Grizzly jointers first and go from there. Are there any jointers NOT made in China any more... besides European machines?
    Last edited by Michael Schuch; 08-15-2022 at 5:03 PM.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Blue View Post
    I upgraded my Jet jointer to a helical head and would NEVER go back to straight knives. Scallops? How fast do you have to feed to attain that result? I get excellent surface finish off the jointer. The noise reduction is worth it by itself. The feed resistance is much lower. In the unfortunate instance you miss a staple or something if it does damage an insert or two you can be up and going again in less than 5 minutes. Try that with blades. Figured wood with straight knives? Good luck.

    I agree if he can locate used that is usually a better value. As others have said jointers aren't complex machines and not difficult to figure out if it's all it should be.
    Well, personally I am partial to the Tersa style cutterheads with indexed knives. I have dealt with plenty of figured wood with straight / Tersa knives and if they are sharp and you can feed slow enough, then I have seen some truly beautiful results.

    The scallops I have seen are small and not a result of feed rate but bc of the geometry of the cutters. Every time I have experienced it was an a Byrd branded helical head, fwiw. Not a huge thing, but it is something nonetheless and was another step to clean up particularly for edge jointing to get a totally tight joint with no tiny gaps before, say, a panel glue up.

    My experience is that the force/pressure required on a helical head jointer is actually more than straight knives within the same width cutter head

    The noise reduction is certainly nice.

    A Knick in a Tersa style knife is less than a 5 minutes fix, but no, not with traditional straight knives. Maybe 15 minutes.

    I have used helical head jointers and planers and just don’t drink the koolaid in most cases. If you’re doing vast majority highly figured, ok sure..otherwise it feels unnecessary and expensive especially for a jointer.

    I can see the value a lot more in a planer, though still quite pricey if going new. Just trying to present a different opinion based on my experience and to show that it’s possible to get more quality and capacity used for probably 1/2 the price of a new PM helical jointer, that’s all.

    Carry on
    Still waters run deep.

  8. #38
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    I've not experienced the scallops with my machines but I don't use the Byrd heads either... I'm curious though, why do you feel it's good in a planer and not a jointer? I mean, it's either good or not good, both machines are used in different parts of the same process.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kananis View Post
    I've not experienced the scallops with my machines but I don't use the Byrd heads either... I'm curious though, why do you feel it's good in a planer and not a jointer? I mean, it's either good or not good, both machines are used in different parts of the same process.
    I jointer is a hand fed machine. A planer isn’t so that’s a big difference. Inserts take more pressure to keep the wood in the cut unless your cutting depth is tiny or the boards are thick and stiff.
    Carbide dulls carbide will Nick. Inserts will get nasty pitch build from fat wood. I have insert head in my planer so I’m not saying they don’t do as advertised. I prefer sharp t1 steel in my jointer it leaves me with a far better surface with the ordinary common woods I use.
    Anyone can see clearly what surface on this Alder is superior
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Andrew Hughes; 08-15-2022 at 5:56 PM.
    Aj

  10. #40
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    I don't agree with the additional pressure and imho, the downward pressure on a piece being "pushed" through a jointer should be on the outfeed side of the machine anyway (infeed until the cut engages and then outfeed once you get it over the hump). Pitch and nicks will occur in any blade configuration. I really believe this is one of those subjective things that folks become partial to one way or another and prefer it because they like it that way.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    Powermatic would be my choice. I have the 6” and wish I had gotten the 8” parallelogram.
    What is a "parallelogram" in the world of jointers?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Drew View Post
    What is a "parallelogram" in the world of jointers?

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....er-and-regular

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kananis View Post
    I've not experienced the scallops with my machines but I don't use the Byrd heads either... I'm curious though, why do you feel it's good in a planer and not a jointer? I mean, it's either good or not good, both machines are used in different parts of the same process.
    Maybe I just have had bad luck with multiple Byrd helical heads... certainly a possibility.

    My logic for saying its better in a planer is that the planing to final thickness occurs later in the milling process / after jointing and it seems unnecessary to have a helical head so early in the process in terms of tear out. I actually have more control over tear out with my jointer because it’s hand fed and I can modulate the speed infinitely. My particular planer doesn’t have infinite speed adjustment (most don’t unless you have a VFD on the feed motor)

    Point being that to me if worried about tear out, etc then it makes more sense to have it in the planer which is typically the last stages of the milling process, prior to sanding, etc. Of course if my planer left the tiny scallops that I have seen in multiple Byrd heads, then I would be a bit annoyed and upset by that as well. I have also experience some infuriating and majorly time wasting hours trying to get rid of ridges and lines in the cut after rotating to fresh cutters...happened more than just once and left a sour taste in my mouth.

    I can say that if I had the $$ to burn I would certainly consider putting a Hermance or similar quality helical head in my planer, but that would likely cost 4-6x what I paid for the machine. It would be a hard choice choosing between that level of helical and Tersa. I really like the Tersa in the jointer for both setup and edge jointing quality. The bonus is that face jointing produces very nice quality surfaces as well, but is typically not necessary as both faces with likely be run through the planer afterwards multiple times anyway.

    I have no allegiance to one specific tooling approach over the other; I’m just speaking from my experiences. I have a very nice CGG Schmidt 4” tall helical cutterhead I use with a bearing on my shaper for flush / template cutting and it’s amazing what it can do even against the grain.
    Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 08-15-2022 at 8:16 PM.
    Still waters run deep.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kananis View Post
    Thank you!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell View Post
    Maybe I just have had bad luck with multiple Byrd helical heads... certainly a possibility.

    My logic for saying its better in a planer is that the planing to final thickness occurs later in the milling process / after jointing and it seems unnecessary to have a helical head so early in the process in terms of tear out. I actually have more control over tear out with my jointer because it’s hand fed and I can modulate the speed infinitely. My particular planer doesn’t have infinite speed adjustment (most don’t unless you have a VFD on the feed motor)

    Point being that to me if worried about tear out, etc then it makes more sense to have it in the planer which is typically the last stages of the milling process, prior to sanding, etc. Of course if my planer left the tiny scallops that I have seen in multiple Byrd heads, then I would be a bit annoyed and upset by that as well. I have also experience some infuriating and majorly time wasting hours trying to get rid of ridges and lines in the cut after rotating to fresh cutters...happened more than just once and left a sour taste in my mouth.

    I can say that if I had the $$ to burn I would certainly consider putting a Hermance or similar quality helical head in my planer, but that would likely cost 4-6x what I paid for the machine. It would be a hard choice choosing between that level of helical and Tersa. I really like the Tersa in the jointer for both setup and edge jointing quality. The bonus is that face jointing produces very nice quality surfaces as well, but is typically not necessary as both faces with likely be run through the planer afterwards multiple times anyway.

    I have no allegiance to one specific tooling approach over the other; I’m just speaking from my experiences. I have a very nice CGG Schmidt 4” tall helical cutterhead I use with a bearing on my shaper for flush / template cutting and it’s amazing what it can do even against the grain.
    I totally understand and this is exactly what I mean, your individual style/setup/whatever will dictate what's best for you. I've not tried a tersa but I hear positive things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Drew View Post
    Thank you!
    Sure thing.

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