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Thread: Praise for upgraded dust collection setup!

  1. #1

    Praise for upgraded dust collection setup!

    There are only few upgrades that have benefited my shop more than a recent dust collection system install. Like most I started connecting machines to portable shop vacs. As the number of machines grew a larger but still portable dust collector was added that allowed multiple machines to be connected. Tired of tripping over hoses and moving the dust collector around a much larger Oneida cyclone unit was installed and permanent spiral ducts were run. Some machines even automatically activate the DC. Looking back at the humble beginnings of my dust collection attempts I can't help to wonder why the upgrade wasn't done sooner knowing now the benefits; cleaner air to breathe, lack of sawdust collecting on everything in the shop, etc. For those just starting out in woodworking my advice would be to give a higher priority to dust collection, especially a system with a more permanent arrangement.

  2. #2
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    'Glad that has paid off for you, Steve...some of use have done upgrades, um...more than once unfortunately. LOL And in all seriousness, you are spot on that folks really need to put more value in this up-front. It's so easy to get distracted buying all the nice tools and then be stuck with insufficient budget to do dust collection justice.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
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    It’s so true. It’s just so much more enjoyable to work in a shop with well thought-out dust collection.
    There is a very fine line between “hobby” and “mental illness.” - Dave Barry

  4. #4
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    I absolutely agree Steve! I started with no dust collection thinking that if you do woodworking that you just have a lot of sawdust to deal with and you just breathe it. I grew up sawmilling and farming. Whether it was breathing sawdust, plow dust and/or hay dust, it seemed that was just part of life. As I slowly realized I didn't have to breathe the dust while woodworking, I changed and added as I went along.

    Your advice is spot on - dust collection should be a high priority initially. It can be tough to invest in the expense of dust collection when you want that big nice table saw or other shop equipment - but dust collection would be first if I had to start over again.

  5. #5
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    Nice move, Steve. The more I got into woodworking, the more that good dust collection and air filtration became important to me. I know I'm a broken record, but air filtration is important too.

    What did you use for automatically activating the DC? I recently became very interested in that, as I finally installed that in my workshop.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    Nice move, Steve. The more I got into woodworking, the more that good dust collection and air filtration became important to me. I know I'm a broken record, but air filtration is important too.

    What did you use for automatically activating the DC? I recently became very interested in that, as I finally installed that in my workshop.
    I use mostly iVAC products. The DC is powered by a contactor (not iVAC) which is activated by another contactor like device (iVAC) that receives a signal from a handheld remote or device (iVAC Pro Tool Plus) connected to the power cord of a machine, e.g. table saw. It also opens an iVAC blastgate tuned to the Pro Tool Plus. I only have one Pro Tool Plus but plan to add others as needed. For machines that don't automatically activate the DC I just use the remote. I recall that up to four can be added to my current setup. The only complaint I have with the Pro Tool Plus is the cycling of the DC when the table saw is turned on and off. You can set the timing but I haven't got around to doing that yet. For frequent short use of the table saw I just use the remote, which leaves the DC on until turned off. I really do like not having to open a blastgate manually, especially when it's hard to reach as with my table saw. Overall I'm really satisfied with the controls on the DC and can't imagine a setup more convenient.

    I also have 2 air filtration units in the shop but rarely turn them on since installing the updated DC system. However, I should probably use them regardless after your reminder of their importance.
    Last edited by Steve Mathews; 08-13-2022 at 11:49 AM.

  7. #7
    I am an advocate for minimizing airborne dust. My new dust collection system is great using a 5 hp Oneida Smart Gorilla Pro and a compact central duct system using Nordfab ductwork. I have 9 blast gates, each has a measurable amount of leakage but the flow of the collector is adequate to still collect most dust at the machines. I monitor airborne dust using a Dylos particle meter. The dust producing machines are each a bit different in how well they capture dust. I rank them this way: router table with Incra Router Table with Clean sweep=perfect, no dust escapes, Powermatic 15 planer=a few chips, but Dylos shows no increase in fine particles, Delta 14 bandsaw with aftermarket 4” dust port on lower cabinet=a few chips escape but no increase on Dylos fine count, Powermatic 6” jointer=slight increase at Dylos 150 to 200 fine particles, SawStop with floating overarm, Dylos increases to 800-1400 on edge rips (blade not fully enclosed in rip), for enclosed cuts it is better, there are lots of variables affecting the capture at the table saw, hand sanding using downdraft table and vacuum collection on sander=unsafe dust, I get 2000-3500 on the Dylos, sliding compound miter saw using manufacturer’s supplied vacuum collection = unsafe 1600-2000 on Dylos. I am really trying to minimize the dust I inhale. Even with great equipment, I use a mask for table saw, miter saw, and any sanding operation. Planer, jointer, router table, bandsaw are ok without a mask.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 08-15-2022 at 9:40 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    I am an advocate for minimizing airborne dust. My new dust collection system is great using a 5 hp Oneida Smart Gorilla Pro and a compact central duct system using Nordfab ductwork. I have 9 blast gates, each has a measurable amount of leakage but the flow of the collector is adequate to still collect most dust at the machines.
    Leaks really don't matter but they can be annoying to listen to if the DE is left running. As soon as a gate is opened the biggest leak is the open duct and the leaking gates don't leak any longer.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    I am an advocate for minimizing airborne dust. My new dust collection system is great using a 5 hp Oneida Smart Gorilla Pro and a compact central duct system using Nordfab ductwork. I have 9 blast gates, each has a measurable amount of leakage but the flow of the collector is adequate to still collect most dust at the machines. I monitor airborne dust using a Dylos particle meter. The dust producing machines are each a bit different in how well they capture dust. I rank them this way: router table with Incra Router Table with Clean sweep=perfect, no dust escapes, Powermatic 15 planer=a few chips, but Dylos shows no increase in fine particles, Delta 14 bandsaw with aftermarket 4” dust port on lower cabinet=a few chips escape but no increase on Dylos fine count, Powermatic 6” jointer=slight increase at Dylos 150 to 200 fine particles, SawStop with floating overarm, Dylos increases to 800-1400 on edge rips (blade not fully enclosed in rip), for enclosed cuts it is better, there are lots of variables affecting the capture at the table saw, hand sanding using downdraft table and vacuum collection on sander=unsafe dust, I get 2000-3500 on the Dylos, sliding compound miter saw using manufacturer’s supplied vacuum collection = unsafe 1600-2000 on Dylos. I am really trying to minimize the dust I inhale. Even with great equipment, I use a mask for table saw, miter saw, and any sanding operation. Planer, jointer, router table, bandsaw are ok without a mask.
    Interesting analysis. I started off creating a DC system to handle the visible mess the machines created. That was accomplished but your words send me off on another mission.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Leaks really don't matter but they can be annoying to listen to if the DE is left running. As soon as a gate is opened the biggest leak is the open duct and the leaking gates don't leak any longer.
    I can measure a bit of flow using a Testo hot wire anemometer at closed blast gates even when another gate is fully open. This appears to be the largest source of leakage for my system. Nordfab gives a spec for pipe leakage and for the Quick Clamp joint leakage. I have forgotten the values but they are small. They do not give a value for blast gates. I think I measured a velocity 5-10 fpm at a closed 4” blast gate but will check today. If you have a lot of blast gates this can add up. I have 9 gates.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    I can measure a bit of flow using a Testo hot wire anemometer at closed blast gates even when another gate is fully open. This appears to be the largest source of leakage for my system. Nordfab gives a spec for pipe leakage and for the Quick Clamp joint leakage. I have forgotten the values but they are small. They do not give a value for blast gates. I think I measured a velocity 5-10 fpm at a closed 4” blast gate but will check today. If you have a lot of blast gates this can add up. I have 9 gates.
    The Norfab blastgates could end up being a bit leaky depending on which direction you install the gate-clamp-screw. Jay explains it in this specific spot of his video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBCL90f_Hs&t=981s

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Inami View Post
    The Norfab blastgates could end up being a bit leaky depending on which direction you install the gate-clamp-screw. Jay explains it in this specific spot of his video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBCL90f_Hs&t=981s
    Good to point this out but I know about the directional aspect and installed mine correctly. They still leak a bit. It is the reason I upgraded my old 2 hp Portable Dust Gorilla to the 5hp. The smaller DC worked ok with flex hose and swapping from tool to tool. It had no leakage. With a bunch of gates, I thought it would be degraded.
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 08-16-2022 at 11:59 AM.

  13. #13

    Upon Further Review

    Upon further review, the call on the field has been overturned. I remembered seeing 7-10 fpm. I repeated the measurement today and noticed a bigger ranch of measurements, mostly 0-7 fpm. I realized that the air filters, HVAC, and dehumidifier were all on. I was catching breezes from other sources than the blast gate. I turned everything but the DC off. I got readings 0-2 fpm. This is really low and not consistent with actual leakage. So Chris Park is right. Good blast gated have essentially zero flow.

    I also checked flow with the gate open. My hot wire anemometer Testo 405i is limited to 6100 fpm and it maxed out at the duct mouth. Lifting it above the mouth gave the expected 6000, 5900, 4300,… fpm as I moved the probe away.

    CDB586B0-5D23-4E5A-BE69-D5B40AFBBBF0.jpg

    I also measured flow with the Testo 510i differential pressure meter and a Dwyer Pitot tube. The probe measures at the tip which, because of the L shape, is an inch or so above the mouth of the duct. I got 3900-4000 fpm which pretty similar to the 405i’s measurement.
    83789EF1-BDBF-4219-9262-B2A0DBF68E06.jpg

    All the readings were taken with another gate open.

    It would be nice to video these things so you could see the tests in motion. Alas, Janicewhokeepsmehumble had better things to do.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    I can measure a bit of flow using a Testo hot wire anemometer at closed blast gates even when another gate is fully open. This appears to be the largest source of leakage for my system. Nordfab gives a spec for pipe leakage and for the Quick Clamp joint leakage. I have forgotten the values but they are small. They do not give a value for blast gates. I think I measured a velocity 5-10 fpm at a closed 4” blast gate but will check today. If you have a lot of blast gates this can add up. I have 9 gates.
    Using 4" ducting is the reason.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  15. #15
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    I can not believe selling leaky blast gates and having a spec for it. Given the cost of the blast gates, there should be no leakage. I have a 5 hp Oneida but use DWV piping and shop built gates. I have zero leakage and no issues with gates.

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