[OP]
Contributor
Hi All,
I've got a set of Lie Nielsen chisels which I like, but the stupid socket design is sorta driving me crazy.
I was looking at that Narex Richter set and it reminded me that they're metric and then in imperial (ish); IE 1" = ~25MM. Would anyone care about this, like, when you use an imperial router bit that's exactly an inch but your chisel is slightly oversized? Am I just thinking WAAAAY too hard about this?
What tang style chisels do you like?
Contributor
Hi James, is the part of "the stupid socket design" driving you crazy about how the handles tend to slip off?
Part of the problem with this, my suspicion, is the insides of the Lie Nielsen sockets are smooth. This makes it difficult for a handle to stay put. The old solution to this was to apply a spray of hairspray to the inside of the socket to make the handle grip better.
Most of my chisels are socket chisels. For me it is easier to fit a new handle. In the past a few of my handles were regularly loose. After a bit of careful trimming of the taper on the handle's tenon this problem hasn't occurred for the last few years.
In theory if the taper of the socket and tenon are a perfect match the fit between the two shouldn't come loose.
With an older chisel it is easy to address this issue. The oxidation on the inside of the socket will leave a dark area on any high spots on the tenon. A pass or two with a smooth file will soon lead to a perfect interference fit. With the Lie Nielsen sockets you might need to use a dusting of graphite powder to mark the tenon. It might also help to spin some sandpaper inside the socket to rough it up a little.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
To answer your question about if anyone cares about the metric to imperial conversion, it does not matter if we care, it's if you care.
I guess the only time I worry about the exact width of the chisel is when cutting mortises or some sort of groove, but you normally would size the marking gauge to the chisel. I guess width isn't as important as accurately laying out and sizing parts to fit. This is all dependent on how you work though. If you are only using the chisels to clean up after machines, the width of the chisel matching you router bit or dado stack may be more important.
Jim offers good suggestions to combat the fact that socket handles fall out. I have a set of Stanley 750's and I love them. I guess it's personal opinion.
Contributor
You don't like them because they are coming loose or you don't like the balance of the LN chisel?Originally Posted by James Jayko
Unless you choose to do so, there's no compelling reason to have the chisel measure exactly a specific width. It's the other way around, you use the chisel width as reference if you need to cut something in that width. Also, there is no rule that mandates that something must be exactly 3/4" or whatever, you work with what you have.
I like tang chisels with octagonal bolsters.
Contributor
Now that I have a fair selection of each, I prefer the socket style to the tang style. Mine socketed ones tend to get loose towards the end of my dry season unless I keep using them regularly over the winter.
As Jim K already pointed out, it is relatively easy to make a handle contour that fits your hand better. Also, though I have not yet broken one, if I ever do making a replacement (since I do own a lathe) will be fairly straight forward.
The most important part of a chisel is a good edge. If a chisel won't take a good edge it is worthless.
[OP]
Contributor
I really like the chisels, but its 100% the handles falling off. I'm well invested in them at this point so the hairspray/sand paper is probably a good idea. But in hindsight, I'm not exactly sure I would buy socket chisels again for that reason.
Contributor
I would suggest you look at them this way, the handles come from the factory needing just a bit of fitting, why assume they are a perfect fit, they're mass produced? A bit of sandpaper or rasp should close the gap in fitting the handle and you're set. I don't use mine often, I prefer other chisels, but I've not had issues with the handles coming loose with the change of seasons, properly fitted they will stay put.
Contributor
A well made handle on a socket chisel should hold on well. With current production of socket chisels the makers may have erred by machining the inside of the socket smoother than needed. Having never had my hands on a Lie Nielsen chisel my theory is only speculation.
This image was taken over a decade ago:
Chisel Selection.jpg
Many more have been added since then. Over at the top right there are two skew chisels. Both were made from 1/2" Witherby chisels. The shorter one has a damaged socket and the tenon on the handle is less than 3/4" and still holds on tenaciously. After perfecting the fit, the few that used to come loose have held on tight for the last few years.
Hopefully soon I will find some time to make some handles and demonstrate how to adjust the tenon for a solid fit.
jtk
Last edited by Jim Koepke; 08-03-2022 at 5:54 PM. Reason: speling and wording
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
I agree. If they had to spend the extra labor to make perfect fits they’d be even more expensive. You’re paying for good steel, the rest is wood, which is our realm.
Contributor
As Jim noted with an oxidized socket, remove the dark mark made on the high spot on the tenon and fit it again. With new chisels, give the socket a coat of magic marker and insert the handle straight in and pull straight out. LIGHTLY sand or file off the mark left on the high spot(s). Rinse and repeat, the high spot marks will increase in size with each fitting until the handle seats all the way around. Then you have a tight handle.
Contributor
Hmm? I've had a set for several years and my handles stay put. As others have said, hairspray or other mild adhesive should fix you up.
Sharp solves all manner of problems.
Contributor
Some folks will never have problems with their socket chisels. Others will have constant problems. Much of it has to do with the humidity changes in your shop. Where I live we have absolutely wild humidity swings. The summer is a swamp. The winter is very dry and with the heat running nonstop it can really shrink wood dramatically. I can easily visibly see the movement on my bench. I only have a few socket chisels – all older ones and one I re-handled. They are all for turning on my pole lathe, although the 2” wide bevel edge one gets occasional use at the bench. I’ve gotten in the habit of banging them on the bench when I take them out because I don’t want to have one bite the dust on the concrete floor – or worse – my foot. Hair spray does help, but it’s not bullet-proof. If I lived somewhere without such wild humidity swings, it probably wouldn’t be much of an issue.
Contributor
I like that the handles come off my socket chisels. Easier to sharpen for one, you can fit a longer handle when needed, etc. I just make sure I tap my chisel on the bench before I use it - backwards with blade pointing up and handle impacting the bench. Holds it secure for as long as needed. As others have said, rough up the inside of the socket and make sure the handle fits properly.
Contributor
Another thing is my handling of socket chisels is to be aware the handle may slip off. This avoids the unexpected.
As has been said before, "trust but verify."
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
have also found...that IF I would trim a little bit off the end of the handle's tenon.....then a couple whacks against the bench top...tightens most socket chisel handles right up.....sometimes, the handle will "bottom out" inside the socket....usually an 1/8" trim will do the job...
A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use
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