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Thread: Seeking Advice for large used purchase

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Seeking Advice for large used purchase

    In about a week, I plan to buy a used RV from a private seller.

    The seller has told me there is no lean or financing on the RV.

    The seller lives in PA, but uses MT to register and title it to save on paying initial purchase sales tax and ongoing registration fees.

    We bank and Bank of America and the seller at a different bank.

    We plan to meet the seller at a BofA in VA, where we will do either a wire transfer or cut a cashiers check. We also plan to have a bank personnel do a notarized bill of sale.

    My concern is getting a clean title and trying to figure out if it has a lean on it and not being able to re-title it.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Since it's a motor vehicle, the owner should have a physical copy of the title from whatever state it's titled in that they kinda have to give to you as part of the transaction, AFAIK. At least that's the way it is here in PA. They have to sign the title over and that's witnessed by the notary who also happens to be the person handling the transaction in most cases or someone else in that entity. Maybe things are different in VA...I don't know. But I'd still want the physical title (and not a photocopy...the real thing). It will address ownership and would/should indicate any lien holder. At least it does here.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    ^^ what Jim said. The owner should produce a notarized title for owner transfer. In Utah, vehicle owners can't even get their title unless all liens are proven to be satisfied...

    But, that won't stop certain ne'er do wells..

    https://www.vinsmart.com/car-lien-check << Just found this website, for $9 they'll run a 'title status and lien check' on any VIN number, might be worth a look...
    ========================================
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  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Does CarFax do RV's? I only purchase used vehicles and usually purchase from private parties. I always run a CarFax on any vehicle I purchase and the report shows not only the current owner but all previous owners and liens on the vehicle.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Since it's a motor vehicle, the owner should have a physical copy of the title from whatever state it's titled in that they kinda have to give to you as part of the transaction, AFAIK. At least that's the way it is here in PA. They have to sign the title over and that's witnessed by the notary who also happens to be the person handling the transaction in most cases or someone else in that entity. Maybe things are different in VA...I don't know. But I'd still want the physical title (and not a photocopy...the real thing). It will address ownership and would/should indicate any lien holder. At least it does here.
    Last year when I traded in my old truck on my new truck, the dealership didn't ask for the title on the old truck. When I mentioned it, the manager said they didn't really need it but I gave it to them anyway as I certainly would have no use for it. I was a bit surprised at that, but I didn't inquire as I had been there several hours and wanted to get done.
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

  6. #6
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    Popped down to my local DMV Registration office to see if they, here in TN, had any particular requirements about forms and documents needed when buying out of state. My Son recently purchased a used motorcycle from FL and the TN DMV gave him all sorts of grief about registering it.

    Anyway, the nice lady at the DMV (yes we have them here in our local town), pulled out a book that had all sorts of titling information for all States and copied the information for Montana and highlighted things on the title to look for.

    This was pretty much what I already knew, but it was good to get it from a TN representative.

    I tried the VIN search, as I have the manufacturers build sheet, which shows the VIN, but I get no hits on that.

  7. #7
    I represented a few car dealerships over the years. As said above, the seller should have a clear title. But things can go crazy. I read in a dealer publication in which a seller sold a late model car to a buyer in DC. The paper work was processed and submitted to DC DMV. The next day, the car was stolen. The car was sold to a Maryland buyer on a duplicate title two days later for cash. Paperwork processed late in the day and Maryland DMV. Car stolen yet again, and sold in northern Delaware with a Maine title. All titles were clear. The salesman had processed the car through numerous states getting duplicate titles in each state that he had it in and then sold it three or four times, before the FBI's computer link to various police departments raised flags on the stolen reports all having the same vin number. Ole Shifty had collected about $55,000 in cash and was arrested on a train bound from DC to Montreal. Seems he also was working at a Mercedes dealer was was telling customers that he could get the sales manager to lower the price for a bribe of $500 when the sales manager had already authorized the lower price. Shifty was just pocketing the bribe money. He may have taken another 10K at the Mercedes dealership.

    If it were a Maine title I would say watch out. It is quite common for people here to get Maine Titles when they cannot get a local state title for some reason. Another case I was involved with slightly, involved a corvette that was stored in a garage for long term storage. After two years, the person who brought the car in and said he was the owner, stopped paying. 2 years later the garage owner filed for a garageman's lien on the vehicle but could not get title, because he did not have an address for the alleged owner. The VIN number no longer showed up in any state registration or title, having been purged ten years earlier by the state of Maryland. So the garage owner gets a Maine title to the corvette and sells the vehicle on ebay to a buyer in Florida. a year later, the garage owner gets served with a lawsuit for selling a car that was not his to sell. Turns out the person who brought the corvette in and paid the initial storage was not the owner. The real owner had been working in some far east country for several years and entrusted his vette to his sister for storage in her garage. Sister divorced and lost her house. She had her boyfriend store the car and then she died and boyfriend moved on. Real owner comes back to the states, can't find car, but a DMV check of the vin, shows it is in Florida having been transferred from a Maine title. Garage guy never got good title because the person who brought it in, didn't own it or have legal authority from the owner to store it. It was a terrible mess. Garage guy ended up paying the purchase price back to the florida buyer and lost out on the storage bill after the initial money ran out.

    I would be cautious of a guy that admits he is cheating his own state on sales tax by fraudulently having a vehicle titled in such a far away state. (I registered a vehicle in another state once, but my driver's license was also there, in order to keep my real home state from suspending my license and registration)

  8. #8
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    I would be cautious of a guy that admits he is cheating his own state on sales tax by fraudulently having a vehicle titled in such a far away state.
    Ditto, if they are going to defraud a state having the resources of multiple enforcement agencies, what might they do to an individual paying cash?

    Each state has different laws on what it takes to change ownership of a vehicle. In Washington there is a full title and a affidavit of clear title that is less expensive. Also in Washington one has to submit a form of sale to the state that costs ~$15.

    When living in California, we just wrote a bill, submitted a form (No 1138 iirc) of sale and signed what we used to call the Pink Slip over to the buyer. The form was turned into the state and saved my bacon a few times because of the buyer getting parking tickets. One time with a company car one of my co-workers/managers was going to "take care of it." He didn't and I was hounded for a few years about parking tickets even though the car was never mine. The vehicles could be bought by people at the company and either kept or sold for a profit. Someone sold our kept it but left it in my name. I always sent the parking tickets back with an explanation and contact information for the company. Also included in the message was they should tow the car if it gets another ticket. Eventually the notices stopped.
    My son sold a car to a friend and somehow is now occasionally getting registration notices sent to my current address. To the best of my knowledge the car was crushed years before we even moved here.

    Ripping someone off by selling property they do not own is an old game. It even lends it tarnish to deals done legitimately.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Schuch View Post
    Does CarFax do RV's? I only purchase used vehicles and usually purchase from private parties. I always run a CarFax on any vehicle I purchase and the report shows not only the current owner but all previous owners and liens on the vehicle.
    CarFax is only as good as what was actually reported into the system on the vehicle. Public records are pretty easy for them to get as you illustrate, but service records are not necessarily accurate because unless a service facility participates in CarFax, nothing goes into the system.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
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    Chatted again with the seller again lat this afternoon.

    He texted me photo's of the Title Document(Front and Rear) as well as his driving license.

    He's going to be with me, at the Bank of America, when we setup the wire transfer, which is his preference, so I will have all his bank details and he'll be signing a notarized Bill of Sale and I may try and setup a Affidavit having him state the RV is free and clear of any financing.

    So I think everything will be good.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    CarFax is only as good as what was actually reported into the system on the vehicle.
    True Dat. If/When we ever sell the wife's '89 Mustang, I'm going to have to explain that, on the trip the car made from Florida thru several other states before eventually ending up in Utah, that someone read the first number of the odometer, which was a 3 at the time, as an 8. When we bought it in 1995 it had just over 40k miles on it. Backtracking the trip from Florida to Utah, other than the 3/8 issue all the mileage adds up correctly. So ever since we've owned the thing Carfax reports it as having an 'odometer discrepancy'...
    ========================================
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  12. #12
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    I'd be very concerned about whether everything is on the up and up. I'm sure the deal is done now but this is Montana's website and I don't know how you register a vehicle there if you aren't a resident. Also there is a link that you can search a motor vehicle's records for Montana. I think I'd have the VIN number ran by local law enforcement to see if there are any discrepancies.

    https://dojmt.gov/driving/vehicle-ti...-registration/

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    I have made two purchases in my life with a title from out of state.
    One I even went to the title office before purchase to make sure what I was doing was correct. Still had problems.

    Long story short. I am done buying anything with a title from out of state.
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  14. #14
    I live in PA. I bought 2 boat and trailers from NJ one years ago and one 6 years ago. The last deal went smooth because I went to a notary first and found out exactly what I needed to make the deal. The first one was a NJ registered boat being sold by a PA marina owner. Turned into a nightmare but finally got it resolved. IMO , always do the homework first.

    I also transferred a title to a car at a notary, but the guy said he would register it later when he had the cash. The notary warned me to keep the paper work she provided. Turns out the guy never registered it and ditched it in Philadelphia. Luckily I had the paperwork when the cops called. I would avoid any vehicle deal with a potential problem.

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    I bought my current car on eBay from Philadelphia and had it shipped up here. Everything was fine, though I had to do a little research to find out about registering a car in NY with a PA title. The seller was a used car dealer who had limited English, but eBay had some kind of guarantee so I felt like I wasn't completely on my own. The car turned out to be better than I expected, and I got it for a good price, and it came with a new rebuilt transmission put in by Subaru.

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