Shaper selection

[ChrisA Edwards]

For hobby use, I decided on the Hammer F3, 1/25" spindle, sliding table and tilting spindle, forward and backward(reversible) motor, pretty much the same setup and Rod, but I think Rod's is in a combo unit.

I used it for my Plantation shutters and was very pleased with how it performed. I did use the tilt feature to put a tiny 45 degree chamber on the rails. This required me to run in reverse.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Cutting the chamfer

[Patrick Kane]

Patrick, I am about 1/2 hr North of MontyP. I saw that and contacted them, I also chatted with Joe Calhoun on IG about it. The machine is actually in NH about 1hr 20 South. They said it was running a year ago and all the parts are there, I was surprised to find that it is only 5hp seems a bit under powered.

I am curious and should probably go look at it but with the side table it’s big, Joe told me the Martin table folds down but I don’t think this one does, I don’t think i have the space for this one. I am ok with a cleanup/tuneup few things here and there but a full rebuild isn’t in the cards, I would be mostly concerned with the bearings, I have read where the right type of bearings for a machine like this can be hard to find and can cost thousands, hopefully someone with knowledge on this shaper will chime in and dispel these myths.

5Hp sounds like the owner is probably incorrect. After I posted that, i went back and researched a bit. Gomad/Unitronics are the same brand. I think there was another manufacturer in western poland that sold that DFDA-4 shaper too. Darcy Warner, and others with credibility, had good things to say about them. Apparently 3,000+/- lbs, which is no joke for a shaper. Honestly, its hard to imagine it actually weighs 3,000lbs. The old Martin T75 i had was 2500-2600lbs, and that was a full 8' slider. This sliding table is very close to the Martin t23, which is identical to the Martin t17 sliding table. I had the t17, and this rod looks very similar. It is crude, but the table pivots up and this rod goes into a little indent to keep it into position. It is threaded so you can adjust the angle of the sliding table. I circled it in red on the Gomad shaper, and it appears to be very very similar to the Martin. I cant confirm it folds out of the way, but it looks like it does. If it does not fold out of the way, then you can remove the bumper/stop on the beam and slide the whole carriage and table off the beam. This is almost a two person job, but that martin carriage and table were probably 100-120lbs. I remember it was almost more than i could handle while delicately fitting it onto the beam. If it doesnt fold out of the way, then you can just remove it.

I hear you, the spindle would almost have to be baked into the machine purchase. Its from the 70s or possible the 80s. Its almost assumed that it is time for TLC or a rebuild. From what ive read, i think you are right. You are in for $1000+. I dont know about 'thousands', but anything is possibly. Thankfully, the name on the front of the machine isnt 'Martin'. I remember a thread with Patrick Walsh on his t23 rebuild, he looked at swapping the oil bath bearings for sealed bearings from martin and it was silly money. It might have been $3,000 for the bearing.

[Steve Jenkins]

I have a Gomad tilting spindle with sliding table similar to the pic in the previous post. If you look at the pic you can see a handle just above and right of the red circle. Pushing down on it will raise the sliding table above the main table and you can push it over so it’s only a couple inches from the spindle for coping.
Mine is 9hp

[Phillip Mitchell]

The DFFA-4 is likely more than 5 hp, though it’s the beefy “undercarriage” that matters more than actual HP of motor. I have see DFFA-4 listed at 9hp and I have seen a DFFA-5 (bigger brother) listed at 7.5 hp, so who knows. If that were closer to me I would be taking a drive over to see it in person and bringing my bargaining pants personally, but only with the expectation that it’s a project and may need the purchase price eventually doubled to get it all straight. Assuming the fence is in there somewhere??

Gomad/Unitronix/Polamco are, by most accounts of those who have actually used them, very highly regarded in terms of quality. Absolute tanks. I was very close to getting the titling DFFA-5 that was on IRS a few months back but the price just went too high and it was too far away...

The fact remains, though that these machines are sort of dinosaurs in relation to what Mark is saying he wants in a shaper, ie: factory DRO, fence memory, etc.

If I were you I would keep an eye out for a post ~2003 era tilting SCM T110 or similar with the electronics on it that you want and go to town for around $5k hopefully. You can use coping sleds or add the factory bolt on tenon table at some point and have a very capable machine for way less than ~$12k but really comes down to what you want to spend.

I don’t see many T130s at all that tilt for some reason. More T110s that tilt but still an overwhelmingly low % overall that have tilting spindle.

I am also looking for a similar machine casually but will likely go older/more dinosaur due to budget.

Edit: There is a barely used Martin T27 Flex listed regionally here for a mere $52k if all that fails and you win the lotto. Looks like a nice piece of machinery.

[Mike Wilkins]

Thanks Chris for the YouTube video on making tenons on the F3. I have one on order hopefully arriving in August (ordered in Feb.) for my hobby shop. There are some doors and cabinets waiting to be built. I just need some lottery money for cutters.

[Mark e Kessler]

5Hp sounds like the owner is probably incorrect. After I posted that, i went back and researched a bit. Gomad/Unitronics are the same brand. I think there was another manufacturer in western poland that sold that DFDA-4 shaper too. Darcy Warner, and others with credibility, had good things to say about them. Apparently 3,000+/- lbs, which is no joke for a shaper. Honestly, its

The motor is 5hp, at least thats what the plate says in the pic they sent. I have asked for more info. Guess I am not sure how to go about checking the machine, i wont be able to run it and i could check the runout but unless the runout is unacceptable (what’s acceptable? 0.001”?) or the spindle sound crunchy how else do i know? Also if the bearings do need replacement in general how is that done, is it a fairly straight forward thing, is there a press involved…where do you even get bearings for that, i hate to buy it to find that you can’t get them because it’s an odd size…

[Mark e Kessler]

I have a Gomad tilting spindle with sliding table similar to the pic in the previous post. If you look at the pic you can see a handle just above and right of the red circle. Pushing down on it will raise the sliding table above the main table and you can push it over so it’s only a couple inches from the spindle for coping.
Mine is 9hp

Do you like the shaper, how does it perform. Would love to see some pics if you get a chance.

[Mark e Kessler]

The DFFA-4 is likely more than 5 hp, though it’s the beefy “undercarriage” that matters more than actual HP of motor. I have see DFFA-4 listed at 9hp and I have seen a DFFA-5 (bigger brother) listed at 7.5 hp, so who knows. If that were closer to me I would be taking a drive over to see it in person and bringing my bargaining pants personally, but only with the expectation that it’s a project and may need the purchase price eventually doubled to get it all straight. Assuming the fence is in there somewhere??

Gomad/Unitronix/Polamco are, by most accounts of those who have actually used them, very highly regarded in terms of quality. Absolute tanks. I was very close to getting the titling DFFA-5 that was on IRS a few months back but the price just went too high and it was too far away...

The fact remains, though that these machines are sort of dinosaurs in relation to what Mark is saying he wants in a shaper, ie: factory DRO, fence memory, etc.

If I were you I would keep an eye out for a post ~2003 era tilting SCM T110 or similar with the electronics on it that you want and go to town for around $5k hopefully. You can use coping sleds or add the factory bolt on tenon table at some point and have a very capable machine for way less than ~$12k but really comes down to what you want to spend.

I don’t see many T130s at all that tilt for some reason. More T110s that tilt but still an overwhelmingly low % overall that have tilting spindle.

I am also looking for a similar machine casually but will likely go older/more dinosaur due to budget.

Edit: There is a barely used Martin T27 Flex listed regionally here for a mere $52k if all that fails and you win the lotto. Looks like a nice piece of machinery.

it is 5hp, they sent me a pic of the plate. The fence is there and would assume its not pinned. I wouldn’t really have an issue putting a few thousand into this machine knowing that i would end up with something of this build, certainly couldn’t afford a shaper with a side table, i think its an 10k+ option on an scm.

Seems like the worst that could be wrong is the bearings and if that needs to be done wondering how long to get it all sorted and up and running, 1 month, 2? Obviously depends on how much time i have available but the other is are the bearings available and what does it take to actually replace them

[Mark e Kessler]

For hobby use, I decided on the Hammer F3, 1/25" spindle, sliding table and tilting spindle, forward and backward(reversible) motor, pretty much the same setup and Rod, but I think Rod's is in a combo unit.

I used it for my Plantation shutters and was very pleased with how it performed. I did use the tilt feature to put a tiny 45 degree chamber on the rails. This required me to run in reverse.

thanks for the Videos Chris, a Hammer shaper popped up the other day for like 5k, I thought about it for a few hours when i went back to look at the post it was gone!

[Kevin Jenness]

That Gomad shaper is in a totally different class than Hammer. Given the price and location there's no reason not to check it out or to think that it needs bearings just because of its age. I think Stark Mtn in New Haven still runs one and they could tell you about it. My neighbor has a 24" Unitronex planer from the 80's which is a very capable heavy duty design. The shaper won't have any bells or whistles but you could add them if needed.

It is a big machine for a small shop. If you only need it for the one project why not sub out the tenoning? If you have the room and will use it the Gomad could be a good solid shaper.

I would say .001" runout is acceptable but no more. If you can't run it make a lowball offer, it looks like they want it gone.

There's a clean looking T110 with 3 spindles on Woodweb for a decent price in PA. That is a nice size solid basic shaper for a small shop. Moderate scale tenoning can be done effectively with a sled on a basic machine.

[Patrick Kane]

Phillip and i have a very similar approach to used tools. I actually saw that shaper weeks ago, because i have a problem with searching the entire country for used tools even though i have no business buying or storing them right now. Its how i ended up with two Martin table saws that i then had to sell later. I should probably keep my mouth shut, but those Gomad shapers are kind of a well kept secret from what ive read over the years. Most guys would look at them and say, 'wtf is this brand? It must suck', but i think more people are starting to catch on a bit. To Philip's point, i saw an IRS auction within the year with a Gomad shaper sell for $3,000-4,000 with the sliding table. Thats a pretty steep price for a 30-40 year old machine. Back to my point i wanted to make, i agree with Phillip on negotiating. I would call that guy back and offer him $1500 to come get it this weekend. Id then sell what appears to be a Festo feeder for $500-600(they are kinda collectable), and then proceed to sort the rest out back at my shop. I just typed this out on FOG--when i really should be working--but with used tools you have to assume something is wrong, bake it into the price, and then go for it. Every used tool purchase i bet that the machine is in great working condition, but i always hedge the price on worst case scenario. Do you due diligence, of course, but you cant GUARANTEE the machine is 100% plug and play beforehand. In this case, the worst case scenario is the seller is a pathological liar, the machine doesnt run, and you have to replace a starter, motor, and rebuild the spindle. In that case, you could probably sell the machine for parts(there was a dude on SMC in 2018 that wanted that sliding table for a Gomad) to break even, or spend the $3,000 for a new starter, motor, and spindle rebuild. If its truly shot, i would probably part it out and recoup as much of my $1500 as possible. More than likely, the machine runs fine and you can use it just fine on day 1. If you want to use it for the next 10,20, 30 years, then you should probably replace the motor bearing($50-100), the bearings in the sliding carriage(just did this on a T17 sliding table for $120), and have the spindle redone(i would sub this out to a professional). This is just what i would do, and i dont want to sway you one way or the other. This could be a disaster, and i dont know how comfortable you are betting $1500+. If that is money you need next week for groceries, then be patient and wait for a less risky machine to come along. Also, its a beastly machine, which is great, but that might not be the best fit for you. Like i said in my first post in this thread, if you wont use a shaper all day every day, and you really only want it for cope/stick cuts, then you dont need a 40"x40" 3,000lb block in your shop.

[Warren Lake]

Up here in Ontario ive seen one Gomad in over 40 years of auctions, over 100. Saw one Felder and no Martins. Most by far SCM but other Italians as well. Its worth noting in SCM that you can put a model number on it but you will find different details in the same models. I would not buy a 110.

The smallest tops ive ever seen were on 110's but then they came with different top sizes. I have a 120 that has a larger top than the 130. The 120 has larger ring inserts and a french spindle. The 130 has a mitre slot. The 120 only has four speeds instead of five and I want five speeds as it covers a wider range of cutters. Only ever seen one Tilting up here and it was an old 160. I mentioned it to one very large shop guy that had many shapers but no tilt and he said they just make a jig and tilt is not needed. The 160 was an excellent shaper top shop with maintenance records on a clip board at the side of the machine. Height under the nut was huge, not sure but double most. I spun the spindle and there was not resistance and it felt like silk. 9 hour auction and one guy that had driven six hours and wanted that and two other machines. He was not going to stop, that happens sometimes. It wasnt a battle id win.

[Phillip Mitchell]

That Gomad shaper is in a totally different class than Hammer. Given the price and location there's no reason not to check it out or to think that it needs bearings just because of its age. I think Stark Mtn in New Haven still runs one and they could tell you about it. My neighbor has a 24" Unitronex planer from the 80's which is a very capable heavy duty design. The shaper won't have any bells or whistles but you could add them if needed.

It is a big machine for a small shop. If you only need it for the one project why not sub out the tenoning? If you have the room and will use it the Gomad could be a good solid shaper.

I would say .001" runout is acceptable but no more. If you can't run it make a lowball offer, it looks like they want it gone.

There's a clean looking T110 with 3 spindles on Woodweb for a decent price in PA. That is a nice size solid basic shaper for a small shop. Moderate scale tenoning can be done effectively with a sled on a basic machine.

I would agree that it’s likely the Gomad seller would take a low offer based on the looks of the situation, but who knows. It may just need some of the crusty bits cleaned up and it’s ready to play. Or it may need various levels of repair. Really hard to say without a thorough combing over in person and even then it can be hard to really know until you have it possession and start to go through everything at your own pace.

The T110 with 3 spindles is actually sold and the listing hasn’t been removed. I inquired about it weeks ago because it looks like a tilt and has the extra spindles and feeder for a fair price, but already sold...

I think I have sorted out the Gomad nomenclature (maybe?) that the “4” model is the not tilting version and the “5” model is the tilting spindle version with various options for motor sizes in each model and the option for the end tenoning table on either machine. It seems like they both weigh a shitton...2k # plus and have large tops (40x40) with even more protruding out the back so maybe not the best choice for a space compromised situation.

The tilting DFFA-5 from IRS auctions a few months back was 7.5 hp and had no tenoning table but I could see the plate and mounting locations on the outfeed side of the machine like it had one at point or they all just come with the option to attach a sliding end tenoning carriage / table.

[Mike Kees]

A Delta/Invicta RS 15 is another machine to watch for. really good solid machine ,mine is 7.5 hp three phase. I have two shapers ,my other one is a Minimax T50 with sliding table and tilt spindle. It is a 5 hp machine. These two are a good pair as they cover most of the bases for me. And yes the tilt and sliding table are used a fair bit.