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Thread: S7 or Exact 63?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    529

    S7 or Exact 63?

    Good day

    I have an opportunity to upgrade my Felder AD951 to something bigger, I have been wanting to separate the jointer and thickness planer for sometime.

    I am considering SCM L’Invincibile S7, and Felder/Format Exact 63.

    Luckily both machines are in stock and available for immediate delivery, both with spiral cutter block(Silent Power vs Xylent)

    Both will plane timber, preference wise, I like S7 a little more...

    The problem is, for Jointer, SCM has nothing right now, Felder here has a new A951L available, I can pick it up from Felder anytime, they are just down the road from me (about 1.5 mile from where I live)

    the thing is... Would it be a stupid idea to have a Felder A951L paired to a SCM S7? There is nothing on the used market here.
    Last edited by Albert Lee; 07-24-2022 at 9:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Buy the S7…you know you want it. Keep the AD951 until SCM can get you a planer.

  3. #3
    i have the S7, a few years old. i run the tersa head on it (by choice). if i had to do it again, i'd probably get the martin, but i think the S7 offers good value for money. it's certainly a beast, and will handle anything you throw at it.

    can't speak to the felder.

    -- dz

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Brighton, CO
    Posts
    87
    I have the plan 51L jointer and an exact 63 planer - happy with both of them. I have had them about 2 yrs and both work as promised. Both have the spiral cutters. I considered the Martins, but almost double the cost, stayed with the Felder. Both go through wood very well, and I have run about 5000 bf thru both machines. I have not used the SCM, but they look like great machines.

  5. #5
    Greg is spot on with his advice,S7 keep the 951 until an SCM comes up…Free yourself from Felder…

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    1,236
    Oh, these are always fun. I hope you update us with a review of the machine(s) once you receive them.

    First, its shallow and irrelevant, but all things equal i would much prefer the machines to match one another. Atleast in my shop, the two are side by side. If i remember correctly, your shaper is SCM too. Quickly looking at things, i dont see why the Felder wouldnt nest with the S7 planer. In fact, the design of the Felder's fence makes it seem like it would nest tighter to the planer than the S7 jointer. I would really fixate on the jointer fence design. My 500mm euro jointer is fantastic, but the fence could be better. I want a fence that retains perfect parallelism to the outfeed table no matter its position across the cutterhead. Mine does not do that, unfortunately. It is pretty solid and has rack and pinion adjustment, but i find i leave it around 18-19" and never move it. This is not the most comfortable position for edge jointing, which is why i would like a better adjusting fence. Other than that, i bet they are similar in performance. The S7 has 12" more of bed length. My joint is 100-102" long, and i dont think ive needed longer. Ive perfectly jointed boards 10-12' in length with my machine. Longer is better, but i dont see a meaningful difference. Can you get a suva guard on either machine? Im not in love with the stock euro guard im seeing on both machines. We had a discussion a year ago about the segmented pork chop from a german company. I like that design or the suvamatic on a wide jointer. Helps prevent you from taking the guard right to the groin, which has happened to me before. I have a tersa head, and i think the insert head is better in the longterm due to the cost of replacing hss tersa knives. Tersa when its sharp is very nice, however.

    I cant readily see the price of these, but i assume we are talking $20k for each machine? Is the T54 still $25-27k, or has that sky rocketed in the last two years? The T54 is the machine ive lusted after for years. It seems like jointer perfection--to me, atleast-- from the fence, to the long infeed, to the suvamatic guard. There is kinda nothing i would change about the machine. Heck, it even looks contemporary and beautiful.

  7. #7
    patrick - i found that putting carbide tersas in the planer gives the best of both worlds. great cut quality, with exceptionally long life, and the ability to sharpen the blades.

    i paid $20k for my S7 back at the last AWFS (three years ago?) now i think they are closer to $25k. the martins are much more, closer to $35k i think.

    $20k for the S7 was a good deal. i am glad i got it.

    -- dz

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,638
    I think the advice to choose the planer you want now and continue to use the existing machine for flattening/straightening until something you covet becomes available. All of these machines are good tools, but personal preference, even if they are for little things, can count for a lot long term, IMHO.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    1,236
    Quote Originally Posted by David Zaret View Post
    patrick - i found that putting carbide tersas in the planer gives the best of both worlds. great cut quality, with exceptionally long life, and the ability to sharpen the blades.

    i paid $20k for my S7 back at the last AWFS (three years ago?) now i think they are closer to $25k. the martins are much more, closer to $35k i think.

    $20k for the S7 was a good deal. i am glad i got it.

    -- dz
    I am not a helical/insert head fanboy--what i have is a byrd, which im sure is garbage compared to hermance, martin, scm, etc--but they are a fair amount cheaper in the long run. I swap my tersa m42 blades once a year. I find i go through maybe 1500 bdft before i flip the knives. Conversely, i went 3-4 years on my last planer carbide insert rotation. IF the better insert heads give the surface finish that they market, then i think its worth the initial investment. Amortized over 6-7 years, the head will be paid off. I assume Albert plans on using the machine longer than that, which only makes it more attractive from an economical perspective. I do appreciate the chip size compacting more in the bin too. What i dont like about my byrd cutterhead in my planer is the surface finish is 6/10. Its just not good. I looked at carbide tersa for my 4 knife jointer, but it isnt as financially attractive over HSS. I think it was going to be $600+ for my machine, and then that is only 2 fresh carbide edges. I think its $400-500 to replace the byrd inserts for a 20" machine, but that is 4 edges. Big difference.

    Yikes, $35,000 for a jointer is something else. I could probably sell mine for $5,000, and i dont know that the Martin would perform much better. It would look a heck of a lot nicer though, thats for sure.

  10. #10
    there is no doubt that the carbide tersas on the S7 are a luxury, and if you calculate the "value," it's not there. they are unquestionably not worth the money if you're not hammering on your machine. the HSS tersas are so cheap, and so damn sharp, you can run through them and save a lot of money. i run the carbides in the planer for a few reasons - first, i run a lot more material than you described, and, second, the place that sells and sharpens them here in the US is right down the street from me, and it's quite easy (and less expensive) for me to interact with them. i figured it was worth it. i used to run carbides on my jointer as well, but after hitting a knot and shattering them, i decided to just run steel and swap them out as required. i used to run byrd heads, and i'll never go back after running tersa.

    -- dz

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    529
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark e Kessler View Post
    Greg is spot on with his advice,S7 keep the 951 until an SCM comes up…Free yourself from Felder…
    Thanks Mark. I have seen some photos of earlier version AD series breaking down and making me nervous with mine.

    I need the $ from 951 though.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    529
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    Oh, these are always fun. I hope you update us with a review of the machine(s) once you receive them.

    First, its shallow and irrelevant, but all things equal i would much prefer the machines to match one another. Atleast in my shop, the two are side by side. If i remember correctly, your shaper is SCM too. Quickly looking at things, i dont see why the Felder wouldnt nest with the S7 planer. In fact, the design of the Felder's fence makes it seem like it would nest tighter to the planer than the S7 jointer. I would really fixate on the jointer fence design. My 500mm euro jointer is fantastic, but the fence could be better. I want a fence that retains perfect parallelism to the outfeed table no matter its position across the cutterhead. Mine does not do that, unfortunately. It is pretty solid and has rack and pinion adjustment, but i find i leave it around 18-19" and never move it. This is not the most comfortable position for edge jointing, which is why i would like a better adjusting fence. Other than that, i bet they are similar in performance. The S7 has 12" more of bed length. My joint is 100-102" long, and i dont think ive needed longer. Ive perfectly jointed boards 10-12' in length with my machine. Longer is better, but i dont see a meaningful difference. Can you get a suva guard on either machine? Im not in love with the stock euro guard im seeing on both machines. We had a discussion a year ago about the segmented pork chop from a german company. I like that design or the suvamatic on a wide jointer. Helps prevent you from taking the guard right to the groin, which has happened to me before. I have a tersa head, and i think the insert head is better in the longterm due to the cost of replacing hss tersa knives. Tersa when its sharp is very nice, however.

    I cant readily see the price of these, but i assume we are talking $20k for each machine? Is the T54 still $25-27k, or has that sky rocketed in the last two years? The T54 is the machine ive lusted after for years. It seems like jointer perfection--to me, atleast-- from the fence, to the long infeed, to the suvamatic guard. There is kinda nothing i would change about the machine. Heck, it even looks contemporary and beautiful.
    Thanks Patrick. I had a Tersa head before. the finish on a set of sharp Tersa is very very nice. in some ways better than Silent Power.

    Where I am the list price of S7 is $24k USD, They are willing to let the floor model go for $18k, The Exact 63 is $22k, I like to have a look at Martin but they are not available here.

  13. #13
    Just hop on a jet to BNE Albert. The Martin dealer is within 25 minutes of the airport. If it was me, I would be opting for Martin for both, but the money is probably $80K NZ for both.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    529
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Quenneville View Post
    Just hop on a jet to BNE Albert. The Martin dealer is within 25 minutes of the airport. If it was me, I would be opting for Martin for both, but the money is probably $80K NZ for both.
    I have checked around, unfortunately TransTasman sea freight seems to be one of the most expensive around the world...

    I went to SCM today to have a look at the S7 in operation, put a few pieces of timber through it, very happy with the machine, I'd like to put a deposit down on the S7 and full payment when the jointer arrives - I love to go L'Invincibile jointer but its pricey. $18k EURO/USD. a Class 410 jointer is almost half price at $10K EURO/USD.

    also an update on my L'Invincibile si X, its now further delayed to Ex-Factor week 36/37 (Sep). meaning I maybe able to receive the saw by Christmas. I dont have much faith now cos this is the 3rd time this date has changed, originally was Apr, then Jul, now Sep, apparently there is something to do with Ukraine - what I am told.

    Anyhow the later is better cos I need to come up with the $$$$.

  15. #15
    Well, if you can get both the SCM machines for US 36K that’s quite a bit cheaper than the Martins.

    I believe that Martin ships directly to NZ and the tech flies over for commissioning and instruction. I know the tech and can report that he is precisely the guy you want setting up machines. And he is a very skilled woodworker who does fastidious work.

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