Thanks for everyone's responses. I bought a new iron for the No. 7 and have a new 2" iron that I can use in the No. 5. I do like the idea of keeping all the Sweetheart irons for "historical value" as they are close to full length.
[OP]
Contributor
Thanks for everyone's responses. I bought a new iron for the No. 7 and have a new 2" iron that I can use in the No. 5. I do like the idea of keeping all the Sweetheart irons for "historical value" as they are close to full length.
Contributor
The frog is back because the iron is 0.1" thick, if not, the shavings will choke at the mouth. As it is, the plane works w/o modification. Even if the iron bevel were to touch the bottom casting, the deflection would be in the direction of closing the gap around the middle. It doesn't in this case.
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That's why I mentioned the file. Dressing the leading edge of the mouth in order to compensate for thicker blades is pretty common.Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera
Sharp solves all manner of problems.
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I had a really good friend so I gave him my old trusty No. 8 that worked great. That one was easy to get so I figured a replacement would be easy as well. I obtained a replacement that came with a Lie Nielsen blade, which is thicker than the original. The replacement No. 8 easily chokes so I think that I need to widen the mouth, I just need to get around to doing it. Honestly, I will probably make a trip out to see Stephen since he seems to be able to make anything work. Last unusable plane I brought him he had working (not fabulously, but working) in very short order.
Always hesitant to widen the mouth, however, because then I have committed to it and it is easier to take stuff away than to add it back.
Contributor
I don't know if this is what you already intended to do, but I would start by filing the front of the mouth so that you remove the metal indicated in red in the sketch below. This has to be combined with moving the frog back.
20220802_142912.jpg
Widen the mouth as a last resort.
Raf
Contributor
That is useful, I would have tried filing in exactly the other direction. Your drawing makes it wider at the "top" and I would have angled it the other way or simply gone directly up and down.
And yes, take off as little as possible. I am a bit apprehensive about this, which is why I have not done it yet. Well, that and because I have two No. 7 planes that I usually use instead.
Contributor
The shavings will choke at the mouth, the chipbreaker will deflect them and hit the wall of the front of the mouth, crumpling them. One needs just enough clearance for the shavings to pass. If you want very thick shavings, you may have to actually file the mouth wider.
If only removing the red, the mouth is not made wider.
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Late to the show, but you wouldn't believe how easy sharpening can be if you use a good holder on a bench grinder. Honing is incredibly easy with a good bevel already there.
Contributor
Have yet to file a plane's mouth....not a fan of the newer, thicker irons, anyway....a choked mouth is usually the least of the problems....
Work completed, side view.JPG
A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use
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This is going to take you ages. Try 80 grit sanding papers, there's packs that are for sanding drywall, they're cheap and they have flaps long enough to be wrapped over a diamond plate. This way it will take you just a couple of minutes to shape a bevel to a desired angle.
This is not really necessary, it will be there in just a few sharpening sessions. Keep in mind that actual cutting is done by the very first few µm of the blade and that bevel is mostly for clearance (it affects the thickness of the cutting edge, but let's not go there just yet). Also, just so you know, many people do this to their irons on purpose, it's called "hollow grinding" and it's a tremendous help if you hone freehand (not so much with a guide).Should I leave it where it is now, or correct the entire primary bevel? (This photo may be from the No. 5)
You should check the whole assembly: the iron, the chip breaker and clamped under a cap iron. You could do it with automotive filler gauges. Basically you're looking for contact tight enough that the iron assembly doesn't vibrate but at the same time you can adjust depth and lateral position. You can adjust the right amount of tension by turning the cap iron screw 1/4 of a turn - the cam should give you a good solid "click", not too hard, not too loose, kinda like a good handshake from a decent man, if you know what I mean.I put the iron back in the plane and now I see that the iron does not fully contact the frog. Can this iron be straightened?
I don't think that any of my planes there's a full tight contact over the whole bed. Even wooden planes have a U shaped contact area, the middle part is usually ever so slightly hollowed. So I wouldn't worry. If you want to do something - put it on a piece of wood (2x scrap works fine) and whack it a few times in different spots. This usually remedies a bellied iron, so I'm sure it will straighten your iron somewhat too.
Also, congrats on the first post, welcome to the forum!
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Technically one needs two points of contact from one side and one point in between these from the opposite side. I've straightened plough irons from Stanley combo plane. The iron will spring back though, there's also a risk of breaking it. But I did it a few times, so it's definitely possible. My approach was to nail two 1/2" square blocks of hardwood to some base (mine saw plywood off-cut), attach it to a moving vice jaw with some tape, then place an iron over this such that both ends rest on the blocks, put a hardwood dowel somewhere in the middle and in between the iron and the stationary jaw. Cinch the vise such that the iron is bent in the opposite direction and leave it overnight. How much to bend and how long to keep is something to figure yourself, you might have to do it a couple of times. Mine wasn't straight after that, but it straightened just enough.
Another way is cold forging, basically you whack an iron with a blacksmith hammer on an anvil until it gets flat. This requires a blacksmith, an anvil and a hammer, probably some skill too. A woodworker could try it on a stump or something rigid with just a little bit of give, idk, maybe this is a good use for all these endgrain cutting boards.
But I don't think it's a huge issue unless an iron is in twist and you can't lap its back or something. But then I'd juust buy a new one, 20$ on ebay can go a long way. Or our Chinese comrades offer very serviceable HSS and high carbon irons and assemblies for a reasonable price.
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This might actually depend on an iron type, most of mine aren't laminated and they're hardened all the way: couldn't find a spot where a file would cut. I also had a couple irons worn to the last 1/16" before the slot, they were cut down lengthwise and converted into marking knifes and narrow irons for shop made planes — fully hardened too.
It's totally possible that a bent iron was hardened halfway, maybe that's why it bent in the first place: the tension from the chip breaker can totally do it to a soft steel. Just need to check before doing anything, it's actually not too hard to snap it once you start using levers of all kinds.
Member
This is correct, but only when there's a pressure along the whole length. When holding pressure applied at a single point then full contact doesn't prevent chatter that much. Of course it's easier to fettle a plane with a flat bed and a flat iron being in full contact, but it's not a hard requirement.
Again, only if lever cap is the only point of contact, 'cos this point is a fulcrum then. Bailey planes have two points, the second is on top where a cam presses it down. Tw contact points with modest pressure will dampen vibrations enough to prevent chatter.Even with the lever cap pressing on points near the top and bottom of the blade the unsupported center can begin to resonate creating other problems.
Also, the lever cap can exert a tremendous amount of pressure, like, it can keep a blade dead tight. On my wooden planes I can pull a wedge just wiggling it with my fingers back and forth, no chatter issues whatsoever even with Bailey type blades. So probably the amount of pressure necessary is not as high as most of us think. Otherwise a spokeshave would be a beast to use, yet they don't chatter when properly bedded close to a mouth.
Contributor
It's mostly hollow around the lever cap screw, at least in the frogs of this style. Good contact at the bottom and top of the frog is more important than worrying if there's contact in that central area. Even if there's contact, it's not under pressure.
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Contributor
Two things that may refute this;
First is the ogee frog design helped to lower manufacturing costs by requiring less grinding of the contact surface. If the designers/engineers at Stanley felt contact at the top and bottom were all that was required they would have likely done away with machining in all but those two areas.
Second is Millers Falls design and claim:
Millers Falls biggest problem is they came to the hand tool market late in the game. They introduced their new line of hand planes in 1929. Bad timing indeed when the stock market crashed later that same year.The other way chosen to distinguish the bench planes was the promotion of the design of their jointed lever caps. The standard lever cap used by competitors applied pressure to the chip breaker/cutter assembly at two points—one at the point of contact with the cap’s cam lever, the other along the lower edge where it made contact with the hump of the chip breaker. The hinged cap was designed to apply force to the chip breaker/cutter assembly at a third point, just above the chip breaker hump. Three points, rather than two—the company advertised the arrangement as a method for preventing chatter.
jtk
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