veneer shooting

[Bruce Mack]

I have been truing the edges of the 8 pieces of shop sawn curly red oak I'd like to use for the bottom of a serving tray, front and back. The pieces are just short of 25" long and about 4 1/2" wide, ~1/16" thickness. It's interesting how rigorous the definition of "good enough" becomes when you recognize that all curious scrutiny will go to that surface. I'd like the edge junction to be free of gaps so I set up a shooting surface of melamine shelving. The clamping is done with 2 similar melamine shelves set back from the shooting surface about 3" and the whole fixture is secured to the bench with a hold-down on one end and an F-clamp on the other. The veneer is "proud' of the securing pieces by~ 1/8" and I reference the shoot to the bottom of the plane only. I found that I need to check each piece for straightness no matter how good I think my technique. After perhaps 2-3 swipes from the left and also from the right I remove the veneer from the fixture and place it against the edge of a 4 foot Empire level hanging from a nail. Because gravity is working with me, there is no need for support and I can use both hands to position the strip. It is surprisingly easy to see a minimal dip or hump from straight with no need for backlighting. There is always some correction needed, perhaps a low end or a slight concavity in the center. The cuts I take with my LN low angle jack plane are wispy and I prefer this approach, using cumulative passes to get it right and checking the result against the level. When I am done I check the piece against the piece I have just done to see that the match is perfect.
This veneering is the first and last I will do. Doing the making by hand is important to me. There are surprisingly few videos on veneer shooting. For my interest I'm asking forum members how they have done this. Thanks.

[Jim Koepke]

The clamping is done with 2 similar melamine shelves set back from the shooting surface about 3" and the whole fixture is secured to the bench with a hold-down on one end and an F-clamp on the other. The veneer is "proud' of the securing pieces by~ 1/8" and I reference the shoot to the bottom of the plane only.

The distance of set back by the melamine pieces and the ~1/8" "proud' of the securing pieces may be allowing the veneer to flex in the cut. This could cause a variation from straight.

jtk

[Mike Cornwall]

I think luthiers do a lot of this kind of jointing and post videos of their methods. A guitar top is more than 1/16” but I think the approach is the same. I will say that I think you know more about hand planes and jointing an edge than the people who posted the videos I saw.
One thing they do that may serve you is using a light box or a window to find gaps. Not because you can’t see the open joint with your method but because you can match a jointed edge to the jointed edge it’ll be mating with.
It might be that jointing the whole stack at once might let you press harder against the edge with your passes and get a smoother swipe, to use your term.

[Mike Cornwall]

I mistakenly thought you were reporting a problem, I think an earlier response might have given me that impression and I wasnÂ’t reading closely enough.
I do it the same as you, using the sole and letting the plane iron keep the shaving in the cut. If the shaving were too narrow to stay in the cut I might have to do something different.
DonÂ’t know your method for clamping the veneers to each other when gluing them down but I learned a way with blue tape that has worked for me and I think would work for veneer. Might be widespread but maybe not?
I put the jointed edges together on a flat-enough surface and lift the far edge of one of them with a piece of scrap. For a 4” wide piece I would probably start by raising it 1/2” and go from there. I put a piece of blue tape over the edges to be jointed, one at each end and one in the middle usually. When I take away the scrap, the tape should hold the far edge up off the table.
From there I flip the whole thing over, run a bead of glue in the joint, and push the whole thing flat so the stretch of the blue tape clamps the joint. Usually I put some weight on it so it can’t spring open.
If it were veneers to be glued down I think I would just fold back the piece that was being held off the substrate by the tension of the tape, put down glue, and clamp the veneer down however you do. The point of the tape is to pull it tight to the piece next to it using the stretch of the tape.
If this isnÂ’t relevant to what youÂ’re doing please disregard, just occurred to me as something that might work well.

[Richard Coers]

I do it by putting two pieces back to back, with a wide piece of of straight stock clamped to one face. With planing two pieces back to back, any error is negated.

[Bruce Mack]

The distance of set back by the melamine pieces and the ~1/8" "proud' of the securing pieces may be allowing the veneer to flex in the cut. This could cause a variation from straight.

jtk

Jim-today I'll reduce the protrusion and see what happens.

[Bruce Mack]

I mistakenly thought you were reporting a problem, I think an earlier response might have given me that impression and I wasnÂ’t reading closely enough.
I do it the same as you, using the sole and letting the plane iron keep the shaving in the cut. If the shaving were too narrow to stay in the cut I might have to do something different.
DonÂ’t know your method for clamping the veneers to each other when gluing them down but I learned a way with blue tape that has worked for me and I think would work for veneer. Might be widespread but maybe not?
I put the jointed edges together on a flat-enough surface and lift the far edge of one of them with a piece of scrap. For a 4” wide piece I would probably start by raising it 1/2” and go from there. I put a piece of blue tape over the edges to be jointed, one at each end and one in the middle usually. When I take away the scrap, the tape should hold the far edge up off the table.
From there I flip the whole thing over, run a bead of glue in the joint, and push the whole thing flat so the stretch of the blue tape clamps the joint. Usually I put some weight on it so it can’t spring open.
Thanks, mike
If it were veneers to be glued down I think I would just fold back the piece that was being held off the substrate by the tension of the tape, put down glue, and clamp the veneer down however you do. The point of the tape is to pull it tight to the piece next to it using the stretch of the tape.
If this isnÂ’t relevant to what youÂ’re doing please disregard, just occurred to me as something that might work well.

Thanks, Mike. That is interesting using the offset as a way of applying tension to the tape instead of (in addition to?) pulling all the tapes as you secure them. I'll try this in a dry fitting with my veneer and if I get it right I'll apply glue. I found only one other method of gluing the edges on a video https://youtu.be/fSkpchJ2_wQ?t=203. Yours ensures tension though if my tired old hands comply.

[Mike Cornwall]

Yea itÂ’s about the same as the video but with the added clamping of the stretched tape. With the whole face glued down you probably wouldnÂ’t have a problem with the joint opening up anyway but it seemed like maybe a thing.
People ive seen shooting edges for guitar tops and backs seem to want the shooting board to ensure a straight cut, your use of the plane to joint the edge straight is what has worked a lot better for me.

[Jim Koepke]

I do it by putting two pieces back to back, with a wide piece of of straight stock clamped to one face. With planing two pieces back to back, any error is negated.

This sounds odd to me. If the plane dips, then the gap is doubled. The same if the plane bows out, the bump is also doubled.

jtk

[Bruce Mack]

Jim- I trimmed three pieces with the edges as close to the melamine as possible. I had the same issue, this time a slight con cavity that would not be seen except close to the straight edge. I’m glad you suggested it and I’m glad I tried it.

[Richard Coers]

This sounds odd to me. If the plane dips, then the gap is doubled. The same if the plane bows out, the bump is also doubled.

jtk

This is what I was trying to describe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6yRugAPw4s
I don't know how you get a hand plane to dip when shooting an edge.

[Bruce Mack]

This is what I was trying to describe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6yRugAPw4s
I don't know how you get a hand plane to dip when shooting an edge.

Hi, Richard. The edge shoots on a 24" piece of 1/16" thick veneer always improve the straightness from ok to almost perfect, The dips or hollows to which you refer are not initially perceptible to the eye but they are glaring when you place the strips together. I suppose glue squeeze-out would camouflage the gap but I want perfect for this and I can get it with a slight reworking as I described.

[Jim Koepke]

I don't know how you get a hand plane to dip when shooting an edge.

Operator error, dust from the work being done on the track moving the plane up and down and don't forget Murphy's Law.

jtk

[Bruce Mack]

Hi, Richard. The edge shoots on a 24" piece of 1/16" thick veneer always improve the straightness from ok to almost perfect, The dips or hollows to which you refer are not initially perceptible to the eye but they are glaring when you place the strips together. I suppose glue squeeze-out would camouflage the gap but I want perfect for this and I can get it with a slight reworking as I described.

I didn't get perfect. The veneer sheet was pretty good with 5 strips held together with CA glue, lying flat as I had hoped. I applied 2 coats of Titebond Original. As you see the veneer took a pronounced curl which never relaxed. I misted the sheet and before it dried I applied the iron to the center oak piece working first up and down and then laterally. I got cracks along the joint lines and ripples that would not flatten with repeat ironing. I incised the ripples (seen as irregular lines by the bowl of salsa) and was able to flatten them. Hope dies hard and I had hoped to fill in the splits with CA glue or epoxy before I recognized this was a complete botch job. I had salsa and chips to give the serving tray an opportunity to serve and then delivered it to the bin. I'll not know if the veneer would have flattened well without misting and perhaps I would have had what I was aiming for.
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