Words of Caution and the price for not heeding them

[Greg Funk]

A plunge router and guide would be my choice. A dado blade in a table saw is faster though and sometimes time is money. But then how expensive is an injury like Goodwin suffered? Hard to assign a $$$$ value to some things.

If you use the techniques described in this thread the risk with a dado blade are very low. I've done stopped cuts with a dado blade for over 40 yrs since high school shop class. Maybe it's the anti-kickback blade I use but I've never had any hint of a kickback.

Worst kickback I've seen was a worker building our house cutting a piece of hardwood flooring freehand. The wood got on top of the blade and fired back like a missile through a 3/4" sheet of MDF.

[Scott Clausen]

When I started woodworking other than contacting the blade I had no idea kick back was a thing. I did however take in any safety videos I could get my hands on and have since modified my standing position behind the saw. Sadly we sometimes learn through a bad experience and other times learn through others experience. I would like to thank the OP for being open about this event. As difficult as it may be, it may actually prevent others from tragic results.

[Ronald Blue]

Sorry that you were injured Goodwin. I won't pile on because about every conceivable method has been discussed already. My last job we did reenactments every time someone was injured. The purpose was to learn and educate to hopefully prevent it from happening again. Determining the better or best way to do the task going forward. They were beneficial for the most part. Those of us with boots on the ground usually were well familiar with what happened and why. You already understand fully both of those. I hope you heal quickly and continue to make sawdust and don't add any additional flesh and blood to the process.

[Bruce Mack]

Goodwin, I too am very sorry. Thank you for telling us of this. Your story will cause me to think when I next use a stationary power tool. I tend not to be focused in the shop, using the time to muse and to uncouple my brain from reality. This is usually ok as I do mostly hand work but can be a liability with the tablesaw when I actually use it. It mostly serves as a staging area, holding things I am working on as well as some hazardous material like try squares. All other surfaces are cluttered so, stupidly, I just shift stuff away from the blade. I will try do better.
I hope your healing leaves you free of pain and able to enjoy woodworking and all other activities.

[Goodwin Heil]

Andrew, I have not, yet. We had a short 4 day camping trip planned and have been working dawn to dusk and were not going to miss this break.
Just got back and it is one of the first things on the agenda.

[Steve Demuth]

it doesn't matter how experienced one might be or how good their equipment might be...accidents still happen because a human being loses focus on something in "that moment" where the risk is there for physical damage to their body. We are ALL at risk and "stuff happens". The goal needs to be to try to be methodical, careful and cautious as much as possible to help mitigate that risk as best as we can.

This is exactly right. If you're doing something you've done 100 times before, you need to concentrate on following good safety procedure, because complacency creeps in, and puts you at risk. And if you're doing something new or one off, you need to think it through and concentrate on execution, because new has its own risks.

I worked for many years at the hospital system with the best rated surgical practice in this country. For many surgeries, that practice has complication rates less than 10% of the norm for the country as a whole. One of the things they did - and remember, these are the best surgeons and surgical teams in the world - is a "pause" at the beginning of each procedure where the team reviews who the patient is, what they are about to do, and any special concerns/precautions for the work ahead. Because mistakes happen, and mistakes kill patients. It's no different with power tools. Think it through, concentrate.

[Ronald Blue]

This is exactly right. If you're doing something you've done 100 times before, you need to concentrate on following good safety procedure, because complacency creeps in, and puts you at risk. And if you're doing something new or one off, you need to think it through and concentrate on execution, because new has its own risks.

We learned that injuries rarely occurred on a job that was being done the first time. Unless there was a complete failure to recognized potential hazards. As you say complacency is bred by getting comfortable and not concentrating fully.

[Edward Weber]

Slightly different take on becoming complacent.
Many, and I mean many, woodworkers are complacent in one form or another.
The problem usually starts with tasks that are simple (low risk of injury) and repetitive. "I've done this a thousand times" is a usual statement heard. This is just another way of saying I'm so confident in my skills, I no longer need to pay as close attention as others, I have the experience to know what could happen.
People usually get away with this on low risk tasks. Most hand tool use could fall into this category.

The habit becomes problematic (potentially unsafe) when a task with more inherent risk, like power tool use, comes into play. High speed spinning bits/blades raise the level of concentration needed exponentially, when a lack of attention can cause injury in a fraction of a second.
Well, you may have done it a thousand time without injury, it doesn't mean it's any less dangerous, but the same sentiment of, I no longer need to pay as close attention as others, I have the experience to know what could happen. This is where injuries happen.

You may have knowledge and experience of the potential hazards, but if you don't pay attention when performing tasks, (become complacent) especially those tasks with a higher level of potential danger, it doesn't make a difference.

I agree with taking a pause, just a moment to assess things before you start. This is especially important if it's a task you've never done before. Making sure everything is set for a safe completion of the task at hand should be what become second nature.

Work safe everyone

[William Hodge]

I have found that pause to be effective.
It gives me time to think about where everything is, what I'm going to do, and if everything is tight. Like the knives in the molder head, stock feeder, fences, guards, hold downs, etc. This pause is also a chance for me to slow down, focus, and possibly lower anxiety levels. Not working with others helps. The only things I haven't seen someone lose something on is a radial arm saw and a 5 head molder. Not having that circus going on helps.

[Scott Clausen]

I have often felt that a task like ripping a bunch of thin strips at a time is the most dangerous type of cut. You develop a rhythm in bringing back the board and clearing the off cut to go into the stack. Both hands with a different task moving independently. Scary stuff there that makes me cringe.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thin rips with out a zero clearance throat plate lead to a bad injury for a friend. : (

[Goodwin Heil]

One of these posts referred to me as a hobbyist. Before this accident I would have taken offense at such a ignorant statement, but now I wish I could claim it to be so. It would easily explain this series of rookie mistakes I have made.
But such is not the case, I have no such excuse. I have worked in my younger days as a Union Carpenter for 15 years, building everything from homes, to nuclear power plants, to schools, to strip malls and everything in between. and since I retired I have built furniture for over 20 years.

I will grant it is a hobbyist type of mistake, but not made from lack of experience, but rather from complacency and lack of focus. I am very proud of my skills and always willing to try something new. I have my own trees cut, have a friend with a sawmill make them into lumber, stack and sticker them in my barn and then process them thru my shop when ready to build. I would think, like most of you, there is sheer delight in bring out the amazing beauty in a piece of wood and showcasing it in my project of the moment.

Yes, I wish the answer was as simple as saying to you all I was a hobbyist and just made a beginner mistake, but no, is is much more shameful than that and I will have to work hard to redeem myself in my own eyes.

[Jim Becker]

Goodwin, it doesn't matter whether woodworking is an avocation or a vocation...accidents can happen to anyone at any skill level. There's no "shame" in that regardless because in most cases, it's simply a human error of some kind at just the right/wrong time. (I say most cases because certainly there occasionally is a machine or material failure that can also cause injury through no fault of the person involved) So don't beat yourself up for sure. In fact, thank you again for bringing it in front of the community because it's a good reminder to us all.

[Warren Lake]

I typed this before you posted Jim and decided to go water my plants but seeing your post posting it anyway. You dont get itjim. My training taught me not to put my hand behind the blade for that cut.

heres the post


No reason to not use my name Goodwin. I originally read your post and it wasnt clear to me what you did. I read it a second time and it still wasnt clear. I think someone else read it and said they didnt get it maybe Mark. Many posts people post stuff with not enough info or are not clear. You use words like Anchor?? I don't what that is.

The hobby statement was a general statement and not directed to you. I had no idea what your history is. Hobby guys no training abound.

Your carpentry history, its a different trade on different machines with different circumstances and different operations. Ive twice seen carpenters rip material on a saw part way through then go to the outfeed side and pull it through.

My kick back scars are scars from material firing into my hand not my hand being pulled into the blade. Tons of dropping on dadoes and single blade as well mostly with no stop. Nothing smart at all about it and its also dependant on material size, cut and more, No benefit of antikick back stuff, two types of dadoes one negative rake used the odd time and safer for that.

Dont beat yourself up too much. ive being doing that for a lifetime after stuff ive done and not just in this trade.

You were either taught not to put your hand behind the blade doing that cut and didnt listen or you were not taught. The pause, think it through use the roseary stuff is not much help with physics, I got the lesson saw the finger when I was told why.

[Edward Weber]

I would like to ask the OP for a bit of clarification.
What was used for an anchor? Was it clamped?. I'm having a difficult time understanding how the blade pulled the wood and your hand through and past the stop/anchor.
If I understand what you did correctly
It's difficult to determine what mistake, if any, was made without understanding the cut completely.