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Thread: Stock market😰

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McCurnin View Post
    ...this isn't a Ronco set it and forget it program.
    Yeah, it should be. I learned long ago not to get into financial discussions with people at work. Because they only tell you about the investments that made money, and conveniently avoid/repress from their memories the ones that lost money. Meanwhile, I've been retired for a few years, and the ones constantly talking about their investments are still working their tales off, with far less money.

    Good Freakonomics podcast recently about how with the multitude of choices that Fidelity and Vanguard, etc... give for 401K contributions, the majority of participants pick bad choices. Or at least certainly not the best choices. The same applies for medical insurance choices.

    Jack Bogle, the inventor of the index fund, has made more money for Americans than anyone on the planet
    . “Jack did more for American investors as a whole than any individual I’ve known. A lot of Wall Street is devoted to charging a lot for nothing. He charged nothing to accomplish a huge amount.” - Warren Buffett

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/warr...ver-known.html

    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 08-02-2022 at 8:59 AM.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  2. #62
    I invested in real estate. Bought a farm in a growing suburban area. Had it 30 yrs this October. So far the value has increased about 8 times what I paid. There has been a lot of sweat equity and I am not including the farm equipment acquired over the years. Had an auctioneer in to see about selling off the equipment when the farm sells. He estimates the value of the equipment to be another 50 to 70K. (mostly 50 yr old used stuff, but still works.) I have some stocks, and they haven't done anywhere near as well.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Hilbert Jr View Post
    Had an auctioneer in to see about selling off the equipment when the farm sells. He estimates the value of the equipment to be another 50 to 70K. (mostly 50 yr old used stuff, but still works.)
    Don't know if you've been following the John Deere saga, but there's a strong demand for farm equipment that the farmers can work on themselves, and not rely on the dealer. It's driven up prices for older equipment like yours as a result.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Hilbert Jr View Post
    I invested in real estate. Bought a farm in a growing suburban area. Had it 30 yrs this October. So far the value has increased about 8 times what I paid. There has been a lot of sweat equity and I am not including the farm equipment acquired over the years. Had an auctioneer in to see about selling off the equipment when the farm sells. He estimates the value of the equipment to be another 50 to 70K. (mostly 50 yr old used stuff, but still works.) I have some stocks, and they haven't done anywhere near as well.
    That's a decent return (7.1%/yr) but slightly less than the Dow (7.8%) over the past 30 yrs.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Funk View Post
    That's a decent return (7.1%/yr) but slightly less than the Dow (7.8%) over the past 30 yrs.
    There are a multitude of costs associated with the ownership of real estate that many people forget to include in their return calculations. I'm talking about costs like property taxes, maintenance, improvements, insurance and selling costs. To perform a true calculation, the investor should take the acquisition cost and add the accumulated sum of these other costs as part of the cost of owning the asset.

    Investing in a marketable security like a stock or bond involves paying out once and once only.

    This is not to suggest that real estate is not a good investment because in many cases it is. Improved real estate has a benefit of depreciation which will allow for tax deferral too. But in my experience returns are not nearly as high as people think for the reasons above and it is important to account for all the costs before concluding what your return is. This is not an opinion, it's a basic accounting and finance principle.
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 08-02-2022 at 12:11 PM.

  6. #66
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    For those of you who employ a wealth advisor to manage your money (in retirement), what's a good range for fees, and what company did you go with? I am 56 and trying to retire within the next 24 months (need to figure out where to live first). I've met with several advisors/consultants and have not decided who to go with yet. They all seem to share the same talking points, but none have really impressed me to date. Rates vary depending on the account balance too. I've spoken to Fidelity, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch and Creative Planning, so far..... I liked Creative Planning the best, but my advisor would not be anywhere near me - and that bothers me. I like to have real, in person meetings. I friggin hate remote meetings though the internet.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Drew View Post
    For those of you who employ a wealth advisor to manage your money (in retirement), what's a good range for fees, and what company did you go with? I am 56 and trying to retire within the next 24 months (need to figure out where to live first). I've met with several advisors/consultants and have not decided who to go with yet. They all seem to share the same talking points, but none have really impressed me to date. Rates vary depending on the account balance too. I've spoken to Fidelity, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch and Creative Planning, so far..... I liked Creative Planning the best, but my advisor would not be anywhere near me - and that bothers me. I like to have real, in person meetings. I friggin hate remote meetings though the internet.
    Vanguard Personal Advisor Service. Yes, it'll be remote, but once set up, you don't need much (if any) continuing contact.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    There are a multitude of costs associated with the ownership of real estate that many people forget to include in their return calculations.
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if I just want to brag about it to my friends?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Drew View Post
    For those of you who employ a wealth advisor to manage your money (in retirement), what's a good range for fees, and what company did you go with? I am 56 and trying to retire within the next 24 months (need to figure out where to live first). I've met with several advisors/consultants and have not decided who to go with yet. They all seem to share the same talking points, but none have really impressed me to date. Rates vary depending on the account balance too. I've spoken to Fidelity, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch and Creative Planning, so far..... I liked Creative Planning the best, but my advisor would not be anywhere near me - and that bothers me. I like to have real, in person meetings. I friggin hate remote meetings though the internet.
    Look at the Garrett Planning Network. They are an association of independent fee-for-service planners with members across the country. While individuals vary across the network they generally share a very high ethical standard and commitment to low cost investment strategies. Many, if not most, will not actually touch your money, providing advice only, eliminating all the usual conflict of interest issues that advisors working on commission suffer from.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    Vanguard Personal Advisor Service. Yes, it'll be remote, but once set up, you don't need much (if any) continuing contact.
    Dan, I keep getting offered Vanguard Personal Advisor Service. Not sure what to make of it. I know only they charge some percentage of an individuals total portfolio. What exactly does your advisor do and have you been happy with your results? I’ve been with vanguard for several decades and historically they never allowed individual advise and would refuse to give it if ask. They would give facts of course but never try to tell you what you should do.
    My three favorite things are the Oxford comma, irony and missed opportunities

    The problem with humanity is: we have paleolithic emotions; medieval institutions; and God-like technology. Edward O. Wilson

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Weber View Post
    Dan, I keep getting offered Vanguard Personal Advisor Service. Not sure what to make of it. I know only they charge some percentage of an individuals total portfolio. What exactly does your advisor do and have you been happy with your results? I’ve been with vanguard for several decades and historically they never allowed individual advise and would refuse to give it if ask. They would give facts of course but never try to tell you what you should do.
    I don't use them, but I know people who have. I think they charge 0.3% AUM. I think they advocate the "boggleheads" approach - put everything into a target date fund and forget it. So what you're really paying for is to have someone who you can talk to and who can answer your questions, and maybe provide some limited advice about how to best transfer existing accounts and how to do tax-efficient withdrawals. You're not getting any sort of highly-customized actively-managed portfolio, but that's the point: you're best served with a low-fee broad-based index fund, so that's what they give you. I imagine there are lots of novice investors (frankly, nearly all the posters on this thread) who need to be able to talk to a real person who can talk them out of making stupid decisions (ie - deviating from the "index fund and forget it" approach), so that seems to be the primary "service" they provide.

    If you can put everything into a target date fund on your own, you probably don't need their service (or any service, for that matter).

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    Vanguard Personal Advisor Service. Yes, it'll be remote, but once set up, you don't need much (if any) continuing contact.
    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    Look at the Garrett Planning Network. They are an association of independent fee-for-service planners with members across the country. While individuals vary across the network they generally share a very high ethical standard and commitment to low cost investment strategies. Many, if not most, will not actually touch your money, providing advice only, eliminating all the usual conflict of interest issues that advisors working on commission suffer from.
    Thanks. I have not heard of either. I'll check them out.

    I've done well enough managing my own accounts for the past three decades, but with this current financial market, administration, I find myself not really knowing how to diversify my portfolio. I know I need help and am not too proud to admit that.

  13. #73
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    May 2021
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    I have a broker but don't get any meaningful advice. I don't pay any fees but any trades have a steep commission. I talked to Fisher but they charge 1.25% to manage while Vanguard charges .3%. Not sure what Vanguard get for a stock trade, yet.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Clausen View Post
    I have a broker but don't get any meaningful advice. I don't pay any fees but any trades have a steep commission. I talked to Fisher but they charge 1.25% to manage while Vanguard charges .3%. Not sure what Vanguard get for a stock trade, yet.
    In my brokerage accounts at Vanguard the trades are "free". Usually what that means is they're selling the order flow, like Robinhood, and you might actually be better off paying for your orders. My other retirement account used to get a flat $12.50 a trade.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew More View Post
    In my brokerage accounts at Vanguard the trades are "free". Usually what that means is they're selling the order flow, like Robinhood, and you might actually be better off paying for your orders. My other retirement account used to get a flat $12.50 a trade.
    I admit I have never heard of “selling order flow”. Had to google it. What a system! Evidently Robinhood is the king of profiting on that at more than 10x the profit percentage others make doing it. I wondered how they made their money selling free trades. Our financial systems are incredibly complex and getting more so. Good or bad? IDK but it’s scary.
    My three favorite things are the Oxford comma, irony and missed opportunities

    The problem with humanity is: we have paleolithic emotions; medieval institutions; and God-like technology. Edward O. Wilson

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