What About the Screen Door? (Adhesive Question)

[Don Penniman]

The recent thread about entry door construction might have saved me from a disaster.

I am (roughly) duplicating the front screen door of our 1920s-vintage house. I was preparing to glue it up using Titebond III - I learned from the entry door thread that Titebond III can fall apart when exposed to heat. This door faces west in a region with west-northwest prevailing winds. The original entry door is held together with multiple coats of polyurethane spar varnish which is refreshed every couple of years.

Epoxy has been recommended for constructing such a door. I have thus far avoided using any kind of epoxy, other than squeeze tubes for minor home repairs. Are there any recommendations for types or brands of epoxy or other suitable adhesives?

(I have childhood memories of my Dad using Elmer's Waterproof Glue on boats. It was some kind of awful-smelling two-part brown concoction. I am pretty sure they don't make it any more)

[Stan Calow]

I use epoxy a lot because of my poor joinery skills. Get the slow curing kind (hours) versus the 5-15 minute stuff you'll find in the hardware store. The brands I think most people use are System Three T-88, and West Systems. I like the West systems because the pump dispensers make it easy to measure resin and hardeners in the right proportion. But T-88 comes in smaller squeeze bottles. Beware of the squeeze out running, so masking tape is essential. And being ready to clean up runs and drips with acetone (nail polish remover). It is a bear to clean off cured epoxy. Protect your clamps from it as well.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am faithful to West System. System Three is said to be just as good. I always use thickener and clean with denatured alcohol. Timing your cleanup just right makes the task easier.

This link has been posted before. You could say West System wrote the book on epoxy for woodworking.

Decades of Epoxy Technology - Epoxyworks

[Tom M King]

I don't use epoxy on the South or West sides of the old houses I work on anymore that have full Sun exposure. It breaks down after a decade and a half from the heat, and that's under paint. I found that out the hard way.

No door I've ever built with Resorcinol glue has broken down yet. For screen doors, I don't think glue matters much. We have one that gets used a dozen times a day, at least. The fit on the bottom is close enough to keep bugs out. Without the diagonal rod with the middle adjuster nut in the middle, and a wrench that fits it close at hand, it won't matter if it has glue or not. That nut gets adjusted a few times a year as humidity changes.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I Have used West System on lots of projects since 1988. Many have been out in the sun ever since. Some are natural wood with an oil finish. I have not seen any failures. A 30 year old laminated wisteria trellis that is severely weathered has some minor creeping but is still very much intact. I will try to get an image of it.

[Tom M King]

It might not get as hot there as it does here sometimes. I've used West since the '80's too. No failures anywhere but on that one house. It was on the second very tall story, so I expect it got hotter up there than close to the ground. All the other epoxy repairs on that house, made from the same 5 gallon (4.6 or whatever they are) West container are still fine today. I noticed when we were working up high on that side of the house in Winter that I had to be down to a t-shirt when the wind wasn't blowing. I just use something else on any such exposures now.

Edited to add: Specifically, it was a window sill. So it probably had some extra heat reflected down off the glass. Now for such replacements, I fold a sheet metal pan, and pour a concrete complete replacement sill in place. It took that window sill six years to fail. I just don't want other failures farther down the road.

pics upside down, and sideways.

[Kevin Jenness]

Total Boat epoxy from Jamestown Supply is a good value. Most of the marine epoxies are comparable. If you want to encourage ongoing research buy West System.

You can clean up fresh epoxy with vinegar or alcohol, as it starts to cure acetone is required, and once it sets up it has to be machined or abraded away unless a resist like wax or tape has been used.

I've not seen a failure due to ambient heat, though epoxy does soften with temperature. Many seagoing boats are built with epoxy.

[Joe Calhoon]

I don’t think you would have trouble with TB3 on the joinery. Most of these fails have been on edge glued panel joints. I always reinforce exterior edge glued material with T&G or some type glue joint. Epoxy can fail in heat. Ski builders always cure epoxy with heat other wise in a hot car or similar they can delaminate. Epoxy is a very rigid glue. For doors that can be a disadvantage more than a advantage.
Exterior doors and windows are a daily build in my shop and using epoxy for everything would be a major pain.
I am not opposed to dowels, dominos or loose tenons on most doors but always like true M&T on screen doors because they can get slammed and banged a lot with closers.

[William Hodge]

Screen doors have been around for over 120 years. All those years with no epoxy. People figured out how to make wood joints that were strong, light, adapted to changing weather, and were repairable. Without epoxy.

Keep the door light, use a good wood like Douglas Fir. For joinery, use through mortise and tenon, pegged. And a turnbuckle.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Good glue gives the option to skip the pegs and turnbuckle. It is not as romantic as Williams suggestion. My goal has been to provide a door that is better than what's in stock at the home store or lumberyard for a reasonable price. I generally use Western Cedar, the nicest ones I have made were Cypress. Several have been made from carefully selected and dried treated Yellow Pine (cca or acq).

[Lee Schierer]

I built his screen door out of borg "white wood" about 10-12 years ago. It served as a screen door that was not exposed to weather for 3-4 years before we replaced the weather proof door. Then the screen door became the walk in door for our netted blueberry enclosure. That put it out doors for most of July and August each year for the last 8 years. As you can see the door is still in use and is a bit weather beaten after 8 years, but all the M&T joints glued with regular pva wood glue.
20220715_155013.jpg

[Don Penniman]

Thanks for all of the insights. It appears I might be safe using Titebond III. The joints are mortise & tenon or splined. It will be coated in spar varnish. I think the wood is some sort of hemlock -- I picked up a bunch of generic 2x6 at the big box store and cut out clear straight-grained sections.

The door is complicated - it has a rounded top and separate screen and storm inserts. There will be lots of time spent at the router table. Some of the necessary router jigs only exist in my brain right now.

front door 2022.jpgold screen door 2022.jpg

[Ron Citerone]

Don that is an interesting door. Hope to see finished pics!

[Joe Calhoon]

I’m curious if the top rail of the original door was a solid piece with the grain running one direction. The way the paint is wrinkled up makes me wonder. A better construction is a segment top. Combination screen storm I usually make a 1 3/8” thick door from mahogany or VG fir. Thicker if over size. Here is a good source for hardware.
https://theharwick.com/?gclid=CjwKCA...RoCesUQAvD_BwE
they have better cam hardware for the inserts than Killian hardware.

Here is a Roman arch Accoya screen door we built a few years ago. It was large 42 X 96.

79C46C99-5407-461B-BDEB-3D6F6E988511.jpg
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AE23B732-6E18-4CF3-8CE5-DAD3E0297258.jpg
EF7A1593-5B53-411C-96CD-91BC06A51810.jpg

[Don Penniman]

I don't know how the top rail was originally constructed. The wrinkly paint is on plywood -- at some point in the distant past someone repaired the door by sandwiching the top between two pieces of plywood. There are also a number of mending plates holding it together.

My plan for the top rail is to use three pieces splined together - similar to the door Joe Calhoon posted, bandsaw a semi-circle, and do the final shaping with a router and radius jig.