Parallel dust collectors

[Ben Grefe]

I have an opportunity coming up - the roof of my shop needs a new support beam (the 1950’s framing is sagging by almost a foot in the middle). Looks like with the remodel slowdown, I’m going to get a contractor in to do the work, but to do so I need to take everything out of my shop, including dismantling the entire dust collector system.

I’m taking this as an opportunity to optimize my layout and look for an upgrade to the dust collector itself. Right now I’m running a Frankenstein system of a 2HP JET blower, a Super Dust Deputy Cyclone going into a 55gal drum and then 2 pleated filters. I haven’t measured the CFM, but this is already the result of multiple optimizations, so I like to think it’s operating close to peak efficiency for 2HP.

That being said, I’d like more CFM. I still have dust all over the shop after using my tools. My options are to either throw away the entire old system and get a new 3HP centrifuge setup ($$$$), try to find a blower only with a 3HP system ($$ - $$$ depending on what I can find used) or do something I haven’t seen before.

I’m thinking about running 2 2HP blower motors in parallel to the Super Dust Deputy Cyclone. Basically piping 2 into the inlet and then piping them in parallel to the large pleated filter. Either this is the dumbest idea ever or the best. I suspect the CFM from 2 of these things will be rated only slightly above a 3HP blower - but 2HP blowers are all over craigslist, while 3HP (or 5HP) seem near impossible to find.

Any thoughts on how this will work?

[Jim Becker]

You can certainly consider the option of using the existing system for "some tools" and using an additional system for "other tools". I seem to remember (a) thread(s) in the past about parallel and don't believe the commentary was positive. If it will work, I'm thinking that a physically larger cyclone than the SDD might be desirable, too. But these are just off the wall thoughts.

[Ron Selzer]

"Any thoughts on how this will work"
Go for it
Running 2hp and 3hp Grizzly blowers sucking thru the bottom of a filter box. Top has a 7" round duct to a SDD which sits on top of a homemade dust bin.
This is the current point in time for this system, has been growing for over 20 years as money comes available to upgrade, like it enough to maybe stop at this point. Probably not, will likely get a burr up my ??? and change something in another 5 years.
This system with the 2hp will leave sawdust mountain in the dust bin, 3hp leaves a lower mountain. Both together leave a volcano in the bin packed moderately tight. Tried adding a 1 hp dust collector I have to it and it sucked the bag up inside the fan and ate the bag.
Ron

[Doug Walls]

IÂ’m thinking about running 2 2HP blower motors in parallel to the Super Dust Deputy Cyclone.

Stumpy Nubs did something like that awhile back! The part about connecting the two blowers together is at about 8:00 min. into this video


He does point out the possibility of over loading/working the motors & burning them up!

Doug

[Ben Grefe]

Doug,

I guess I didn't watch that episode of Stumpy. He says you can't do 2 in parallel, I'll need to look into why a bit more.

Jim, I lied, I have a Dust Deputy XL. Between it and the drum it's over 8 ft tall, so I can't get a much bigger cyclone and still fit in my garage!

IMG_4208.jpg

Any ideas where I can find just a 3hp blower and 15inch impeller setup new? I really don't want to throw away the rest of the setup (I think I spent a few hundred on the filters). The XL cycle is rated for 3 to 5 HP, so I'm already running it with too little of a blower.

[Aaron Inami]

Any ideas where I can find just a 3hp blower and 15inch impeller setup new? I really don't want to throw away the rest of the setup (I think I spent a few hundred on the filters). The XL cycle is rated for 3 to 5 HP, so I'm already running it with too little of a blower.

Have you contacted Clearvue? They -might- sell you a separate 5HP motor and blower unit. My guess is it will likely be around $1,000 for a single-phase motor plus blower if they do decide to do this.

Otherwise, your best bet is to try to find a used Powermatic 3HP dual bag dust collector and then scavenge that motor/blower. The Powermatic uses a 14" impeller. Most all other 3HP dust collectors are actually only using 12" or 12-3/4" impellers.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I have a friend with a 5HP Delta with the tall skinny bags for sale. He would probably make you a deal, but I should note that it has been sitting outside for a few months. The bags are in good shape. I am not sure if it’s single phase or 3 phase. If you can email me I can send you his number.

[Jim Becker]

Any ideas where I can find just a 3hp blower and 15inch impeller setup new? I really don't want to throw away the rest of the setup (I think I spent a few hundred on the filters). The XL cycle is rated for 3 to 5 HP, so I'm already running it with too little of a blower.

That's actually probably the better idea for upgrading your system. I'm honestly not sure who sells new blowers "alone", but check Grizzly for sure.

[Dave Sabo]

I’m in the dumbest idea ever camp on using two blowers.

Aaron is on the right track. Find yourself a larger blower and a bigger motor if you want to keep your current system. 5 hp would be great. If a good enough deal came along on a new cyclone system , you can alway sell off the parts of your old system and recoup some of your money.

[Malcolm McLeod]

...
I’m thinking about running 2 2HP blower motors in parallel ...

The blowers and motors must all be identical in any parallel system. Even the resulting headers, both suction and discharge, must be exactly identical in terms of performance loss, pressure drop, etc.

If not, the output of one may lag - just a tiny bit - and the other dominates. Maybe even to the point of completely stalling flow on the 'weak' unit. You might make it work in your case, but I'm afraid it would be a high-wire act.

I have automated and commissioned ~75 centrifugal pump systems so far, with 3ea 150hp parallel pumps in each system. If our Facilities Engineers or a contractor fat-fingers a pipe length, or a weld, or throws in an extra elbow, it can destroy the seals in the now 'weak' pump in 2-3 days. All because flow is stalled on that pump.

You undoubtedly will not have such seals, but you might not have any extra flow either?

If you pursue this, I'd recommend you separate the discharge lines - - make sure these lines at least do not share the same plenum pressure, filter back pressure, etc. Both blowers would still have to pull from the same source, but there's no way around this except to have 2 entirely different DC systems.... my $0.02. Hope it helps.

[Ben Grefe]

Ok, some really good advice here and it seems like there’s decent evidence that hooking up 2 dust collectors in parallel might not be the best idea. I was planning to balance the system, but by the time I get custom pipes made, etc etc, I might be looking at some additional costs. Also, the chances of finding a perfectly balanced dust collector to go with my existing 20 year old partially beat up unit might be tough .


So, let’s say I do just get a single 3HP. I found a Powermatic 3HP unit on CL for a decent price. But it’s 3 phase. It’s also the older model without a remote.

Does anybody have recommendations for 1PH to 3PH VFD’s with a remote that would work with a dust collector? I’ve hooked up a few VFD’s now, so I’m comfortable with them, but none with a remote.

[Malcolm McLeod]

...
Does anybody have recommendations ...

Some recent related discussion here >>> https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....peed-questions

[Aaron Inami]

Hah, I just had a discussion thread on this recently for planning on a Clearvue cyclone:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....peed-questions

Based on what I have found, none of the VFDs are made with remotes. Some will allow you to remove the control pad and locate it elsewhere, but it has to be hard-wired back to the VFD unit using either a RJ45 or a proprietary data cable. However, pretty much all VFD can be configured to start/stop using a remote relay switch. I decided that I'm going with an ATO VFD and on the ATO you just need a relay to connect the COM and FWD pins on the communications bus. You just need to set the VFD parameter to use the communication bus pins as a trigger to start/stop the motor. On the ATO VFD, it is the P0.03 parameter.

It seems that eMylo makes a variety of these relays with keyfob remotes. They are readily available on Amazon. You just have to make sure it is a unit that can be configured as a simple relay to connect two wires. Some of these remote control units will output AC or DC voltage (you do NOT want this).

[Aaron Inami]

The ATO 3HP single phase to 3 phase VFD (:
https://www.amazon.com/ATO-Single-Ph...WWF/ref=sr_1_5

I also found a Kinco VFD (distributed by Anaheim Automation in California). Grizzly actually uses this model in their South Bend 3HP variable speed edge sander:
https://www.kincoautomation.com/prod...V100-2S-0022G/

Or the variety of Chinese VFD on Amazon for $80-150.

[Jeff Roltgen]

VFD unnecessary. All you need is this:

https://phaseconverterusa.com/3--5-H...er-_p_122.html

I've been running a 5hp 3phase Murphy Rogers on this in my full-time shop for several years. It's really just a supplemental start capacitor, so you'll be running at only 2/3 HP, but this is completely irrelevant on a DC. Works like a champ, and opens the doors to not just 3HP but even that Delta 5HP mentioned earlier by Bobby.

BTW: I run a remote control with it as well. Very simple setup.


jeff