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Thread: 400 cope cuts on a router table

  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark e Kessler View Post
    Felders have the slide and tilt but after my experience with the company I would prefer to not buy a Felder and at some point will unload all of my existing and replace it. the other important thing for me is having a good fence, a lot of those older MM fences don't have fine adjustment, pin locating or counters on them. I kinda came to the conclusion that i will need to spend min 5-12k if i want a more advanced fence, sliding table and tilting arbor.
    Pin located fences and counter/s seem relatively rare (other than ordering new euro machines). I can't say I've ever felt not having either was lacking, but to be fair I've not used a machine with them either. I'd think something between a 110 and 130 class machine would fit your general requirements.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell View Post
    Ah yes, I always forget about Felder because I never consider them as an option for my needs but it seems they have sliding/tilting in a package. I specifically look for used machines pre ~2000 to avoid the headache of controls that are dependent on integrated electronics and most of Felder is generally newer, electronically controlled, out of my price range, and doesn’t seem as heavy duty as what I’m looking for. I’m looking for something more like an older tilting SCM T160, old Bauerle / Martin level of machine, so we’re in 2 different eras / levels of refinement.

    You’re probably about right on your budgeting for what you’re talking about. Don’t think you’d regret having that class of shaper at your disposal. What models fit those criteria and are on the short list?
    I don’t have an issue with newer electronics, pretty easy to diagnose and repair (but thats because i work in an electrical test lab and have a lot at my disposal) plus they are pretty reliable these days not like the pre2k stuff

    As far as new MM tw 55es is the only one on my short list.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sankovich View Post
    Pin located fences and counter/s seem relatively rare (other than ordering new euro machines). I can't say I've ever felt not having either was lacking, but to be fair I've not used a machine with them either. I'd think something between a 110 and 130 class machine would fit your general requirements.

    i could be over thinking the pin and counter fence but they couldn’t hurt. Guess the one thing i am not sure of is do i really need a sliding table, if not it opens up a lot. My main thing is if i am going to get one i want it to be as flexible and easy setting as possible

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark e Kessler View Post
    i could be over thinking the pin and counter fence but they couldn’t hurt. Guess the one thing i am not sure of is do i really need a sliding table, if not it opens up a lot. My main thing is if i am going to get one i want it to be as flexible and easy setting as possible
    2 of my shapers have sliding tables. I Swapped a tilt slider for a tilt non slider (upgraded capacity) and don't miss the sliding table at all. I use a pneumatic sled for coping even on the sliders. If I was doing passage door sized copes or long integral tenons that may be different.

  5. #20
    My takeaways and conversations from folks who do larger tenon work (Joe Calhoun, Brent Stanley and a few others) is that the side / flush sliding tables and pneumatic coping sleds are good for cabinetry sized parts but become outmatch for passage door and up sized tenon work. I have been advised that it’s more preferable to have a bolt on tenoning table (SCM, Panhans, etc) or move up to the end mounted sliding tenoning tables with outrigger, etc which is a much bigger and more expensive machine.

    Being in a place of wanting a larger shaper that is capable of passage / entry door tenon sized work, I’m on the hunt for a larger, tilting shaper with fixed table and intending to use a mix of pneumatic style coping sled for smaller work and sourcing a used bolt on tenoning table that can come on and off for the larger tenoning work.

    This all makes sense in theory and seems to make for a very versatile setup with a feeder mounted in a relatively small footprint compared to the huge tenoning shapers with outriggers on the end. I have not personally proven the theory yet but am moving in that direction.
    Still waters run deep.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell View Post
    My takeaways and conversations from folks who do larger tenon work (Joe Calhoun, Brent Stanley and a few others) is that the side / flush sliding tables and pneumatic coping sleds are good for cabinetry sized parts but become outmatch for passage door and up sized tenon work. I have been advised that it’s more preferable to have a bolt on tenoning table (SCM, Panhans, etc) or move up to the end mounted sliding tenoning tables with outrigger, etc which is a much bigger and more expensive machine.

    Being in a place of wanting a larger shaper that is capable of passage / entry door tenon sized work, I’m on the hunt for a larger, tilting shaper with fixed table and intending to use a mix of pneumatic style coping sled for smaller work and sourcing a used bolt on tenoning table that can come on and off for the larger tenoning work.

    This all makes sense in theory and seems to make for a very versatile setup with a feeder mounted in a relatively small footprint compared to the huge tenoning shapers with outriggers on the end. I have not personally proven the theory yet but am moving in that direction.
    i think maybe no need for the sliding table without outrigger, I don’t plan on doing large doors - but I wasn’t planning on building a 100 + shutters either.
    i just want to buy solid the first time, all of my equipment is paid for and try to buy quality (don’t we all…) I don’t depend on any of my side work for income most of it just gets invested in the market but the plan is to retire in my early 60’s and have the equipment to make side money (ie cash) to supplement SS (if there is any) and 401k/hsa…

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Rich, I was thinking the same with the tooling. I was thinking i would need to buy two sets just to be sure and I think Milwaukee makes a 3.5hp as well
    Mark - Yes, they do! I have a Milwaukee 5625. It's a beast for sure.
    They don't seem to be around all that much though. Like just about everything though.

    I only mention Triton because I hear so much good about them.

    I'll probably end up with a Triton myself next year.


    I don't have a medium to heavy duty plunge router.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  8. #23
    Surprised no one has asked, is it something you might rather pass along to a production outfit? Granted it is for a friend, but quite a few negatives have been raised.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Stephan View Post
    Surprised no one has asked, is it something you might rather pass along to a production outfit? Granted it is for a friend, but quite a few negatives have been raised.
    Glad you brought that up, I will be more than likely sub the milling out it’s about 500 bft and that will reduce the time and a lot of sweet. I don’t want to sub all of it out as my friend wants me to do it and me wants the 💰💰💰. And i guess i am not sure of the “quite a few negatives” that have been mentioned other than potentially burned out routers, as a matter of fact I am more confident now that I could do it with routers as several here said they did large quantities this way. But you are right, should go to a full time outfit as I haven’t done this much “production” type WW since I had my business but like Tom said, sounds like an excuse to buy a shaper. Clearly a shaper is the way to go, if i was 18-19 year old self like when I started I would have done it with routers….

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
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    445
    If these shutters are going to see any weather and you want to use oak, I would suggest white oak. Red oak is not very durable.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Falk View Post
    If these shutters are going to see any weather and you want to use oak, I would suggest white oak. Red oak is not very durable.
    Thanks Bob, should have mentioned these are interior shutters 1” thick and will be painted. They want them to be the same wood as some existing shutters that they have. The windows are about 45” w x 91” tall

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
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    That sounds about the same size as the exterior shutters I built for this house. These were the largest I'd ever built. This is a museum house, and the shutters stay closed when the house is not open.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #28
    Youve posted that door before and really like the character all the inconsistences there add to it. Nice look compared to the clinical look off machines

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
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    What I do is really forgery of old house parts-trying to fool as many as possible that what they're looking at is really old.

  15. #30
    you cant fool a fool so you didnt fool me. The look is excellent. Ive seen one kitchen company think Kennebec do that. They do nice work. I had to fix up a kitchen years ago and not replace it. I hand painted it and I liked the brush mark look. When I did the facias on two homes I brushed them so it was clear it was wood and not aluminum or metal clinical look.

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