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Thread: Canadian breaker panels.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Meyer View Post
    I've watched a lot of Mike Holmes's shows on TV. He normally uses an outfit called Solutions Electrical for his electrical work. From what I remember, most of the new panels they mount are horizontal, usually in some type of cabinet. They don't typically have covers on them, from what I've seen. I thought it was a Canadian thing, as I don't see horizontal panels in residential homes here in the states.
    I haven't seen the program in a few years. Candy was the one who would tune in and my watching was mostly when passing by or sitting down for a bit of rest or relaxation.

    So just for the heck of it Dr. Google was called to task > holmes on homes electrical panel < was the search term. Screen shots were taken of three panels. The first was posted in 2022, the second was posted in 2019 and the third in 2020:

    EP 1.jpgEP 2.jpgEP3.jpg

    Apparently it doesn't matter whether the panel is mounted in a vertical or horizontal orientation.

    Notice the third one doesn't have a cover. If it is inside a building there likely isn't a likelihood of it getting rained or showed upon. Also note the labels are oriented as if to be used in a vertical orientation.

    Another thought, if the box is mounted horizontal outside wouldn't it make sense to have the door open upward so if it wasn't fully latched it would still help to keep out the weather from gravity holding it down?

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 06-27-2022 at 6:15 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Holmes on Homes is a Canadian TV program on home restoration and inspection. To my recollection they have never installed an electrical panel mounted sideways.
    jtk
    Please, DO NOT follow electrical advice from Mike Holmes. The guy is such a hack. He rags on about contractors not getting licenses or permits, and hiring non-qualified people, then in the next scene he's installing wiring. He is not an electrician and it is clear from the way he works with wire that he knows just enough to be dangerous. Mike Holmes reminds me a lot of Bob Villa; a big mouth who doesn't let anyone get in a work edgewise and if you take away their TV shows, their just a couple of hacks with many business failures to their names.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    As I said earlier, I'm not an electrician but most if not all the panels I've seen are vertical. A Google search found this web page https://homeinspectioninsider.com/or...els-canada-us/. Which says "The sideways installation is that Canada experiences more extreme weather conditions than the US. The panels are less likely to be damaged by snow or rain if installed horizontally. In fact, in some parts of Canada, it is required by law to have electrical panels installed this way due to the high potential for damage from severe weather."

    No idea of the credentials of this website but I suspect they don't know what they are talking about. Seems to me the only severe weather which would impact a panel would be flooding. When it comes to flooding, the worst weather in Canada, typically a blizzard, pales in comparison to a hurricane which is much more common in the US than Canada. Plus when it comes to cold weather Alaska is more severe than most of Canada or at least the part of Canada where 90% of the population lives.
    Mounting a panel sideways is strictly a remedial step that is taken in an existing installation. If the basement is in a flood plane, there can be no electrical wiring below the determined flood level. In new construction, the panel must be located where there will be no flood waters so that power may be safely turned off. After Calgary's 2013 flood, I became a bit of an expert on what the requirements are WRT flooding and electrical equipment

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Meyer View Post
    I've watched a lot of Mike Holmes's shows on TV. He normally uses an outfit called Solutions Electrical for his electrical work. From what I remember, most of the new panels they mount are horizontal, usually in some type of cabinet. They don't typically have covers on them, from what I've seen. I thought it was a Canadian thing, as I don't see horizontal panels in residential homes here in the states.
    I'm a master electrician and have been in the trade for 47 years (and still going) and can count the number of horizontal panels I've seen without having to take off my shoes or drop my trousers. I have no idea why they would put them horizontal. Can't think of a single advantage, other than flood level clearance.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Notice the third one doesn't have a cover. If it is inside a building there likely isn't a likelihood of it getting rained or showed upon. Also note the labels are oriented as if to be used in a vertical orientation.

    Another thought, if the box is mounted horizontal outside wouldn't it make sense to have the door open upward so if it wasn't fully latched it would still help to keep out the weather from gravity holding it down?

    jtk
    Code wise, there is no prohibition on horizontal mounting, it's just that there's not advantage to it.

    Panels approved for exterior installation have doors with a captive latch to keep them closed. In fact, any exterior panels I've worked with cannot be mounted horizontally because the drip edges that keep the inside dry don't work on their side.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    Mounting a panel sideways is strictly a remedial step that is taken in an existing installation. If the basement is in a flood plane, there can be no electrical wiring below the determined flood level. In new construction, the panel must be located where there will be no flood waters so that power may be safely turned off. After Calgary's 2013 flood, I became a bit of an expert on what the requirements are WRT flooding and electrical equipment
    Maybe I only think that most of the are horizontal because they are the ones I notice, since they strike me as odd. I did a Google search for images from his shows, and I did see several horizontal panels, but more images of vertical panels.

    I'm not an electrician, just a homeowner hack who has done some electrical work in his own home. My work was good enough to pass inspection, but my knowledge is very limited. The only electrical advice I would ever give is "call an electrician" or "check with your electrical inspector", as that is all I'm qualified to say.

  7. #22
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    He rags on about contractors not getting licenses or permits, and hiring non-qualified people, then in the next scene he's installing wiring.
    Having not watched Holmes in a few years the episodes you refer to have been missed. I do not recall any wiring being done by Mike Holmes. I do recall him pointing out some of the problems with wiring in homes. Mostly it was hidden junction boxes or bad wiring. In the episodes in my recollection he always had a qualified contractor doing the electrical work.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Having not watched Holmes in a few years the episodes you refer to have been missed. I do not recall any wiring being done by Mike Holmes. I do recall him pointing out some of the problems with wiring in homes. Mostly it was hidden junction boxes or bad wiring. In the episodes in my recollection he always had a qualified contractor doing the electrical work.

    jtk
    That's my recollection also.

  9. #24
    both homes ive owned panels were horizontal. Likely the reason they were built 60s and 70 and back then panels were small then owners upgraded and the longer panel could not fit vertical based on wiring there or clearance.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Having not watched Holmes in a few years the episodes you refer to have been missed. I do not recall any wiring being done by Mike Holmes. I do recall him pointing out some of the problems with wiring in homes. Mostly it was hidden junction boxes or bad wiring. In the episodes in my recollection he always had a qualified contractor doing the electrical work.

    jtk
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    That's my recollection also.

    Seen it with my own eye guys. Several times. I know he had and electrical contractor he used, but there was no indication whether or not the contractor was on site or had pulled a permit. Even with a permit and if the contractor was present, it is still illegal for him to do any electrical work. Electrical inspectors will periodically ask to see certification from electricians and apprentices on a jobsite.

    It just galls me that he preaches his bit about permits and qualified workers (about which he is spot on) but then in the next breath he does what countless subpar, unlicensed contractors do everyday all across the country.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Meyer View Post
    The only electrical advice I would ever give is "call an electrician" or "check with your electrical inspector", as that is all I'm qualified to say.
    And that's about the best advice to give.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    Seen it with my own eye guys. Several times. I know he had and electrical contractor he used, but there was no indication whether or not the contractor was on site or had pulled a permit. Even with a permit and if the contractor was present, it is still illegal for him to do any electrical work. Electrical inspectors will periodically ask to see certification from electricians and apprentices on a jobsite.

    It just galls me that he preaches his bit about permits and qualified workers (about which he is spot on) but then in the next breath he does what countless subpar, unlicensed contractors do everyday all across the country.
    What exactly did you see with your own eyes?

    He may be legally listed as one of his electrical contractor's apprentices.

    After spending about 20 minutes trying different searches for Homes doing electrical work nothing untoward has surfaced.

    To my recollection he has shown bad work, tested wires with a neon type indicator and held a bundle of wires when demonstrating there is no way of knowing what goes where. He may have been holding a ceiling mounted pot light at one time or another showing how it fits into the ceiling.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    Seen it with my own eye guys. Several times. I know he had and electrical contractor he used, but there was no indication whether or not the contractor was on site or had pulled a permit. Even with a permit and if the contractor was present, it is still illegal for him to do any electrical work. Electrical inspectors will periodically ask to see certification from electricians and apprentices on a jobsite.

    It just galls me that he preaches his bit about permits and qualified workers (about which he is spot on) but then in the next breath he does what countless subpar, unlicensed contractors do everyday all across the country.
    Not denying what you saw but if you are the only one who saw it, isn't it fair to say it wasn't his normal practice?

  14. #29
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    Why horizontal panels in Canada? Refusal to be like the folks south of their border.
    NOW you tell me...

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    Why horizontal panels in Canada? Refusal to be like the folks south of their border.
    These days that's making more and more sense.

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