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Thread: Why I'll be waiting awhile for my 1st electric vehicle...

  1. #16
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    I’m willing to posit that while ICE vehicle fires are more common, they are probably far less catastrophic—many minor fires that get put out quickly. I’ve seen several, and helped with a couple even. Most of them, the vehicle ended up back on the road after repair. I’m guessing that the battery pack fires are far more difficult to contain, and fire departments (and homeowners) far less likely to have the proper extinguishers to put them out.
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Schuch View Post
    I don't buy new cars so it will quite a while before electric cars make it down to a price I am willing to pay as well as the infrastructure to rebuild the battery packs to evolve enough to make an used electric car practical for me.

    In the mean time I am REALLY enjoying my hybrid, best performing car and best gas milage vehicle I have ever owned.

    In my area the electric bicycles that are more like electric scooters have really taken off lately. I like more steel around me to protect me from other drivers on the road than an e-bike would give me.

    As far as the article linked to it looks like there is money to be made in coming up with technology to suppress battery packs fires! At least that is what that article makes me ponder about.
    There is research into alternative battery chemistries that have fewer issues. Sodium ion is one that has gotten some press lately, sodium is not a scarce commodity. Our friends in the Middle Kingdom (China) are the 800 lb. gorillas of Lithium. It might be nice to reduce that reliance a bit. Also Sodium ion batteries don't seem prone to catching fire like Lithium Ion batteries.

  3. #18
    We have a local on-lines news outfit. It is my first stop every morning to review the “What’s Happening” and “Fire News.” Here in the Foothills of the Sierra I have been shocked at how many vehicle fires there are and by how many fires are started by the meathead who pulls his car off the road into tinder dry grass. The catalytic converter then ignites the grass and we are off. It happens all the time. If I buy another car it will be electric.

  4. #19
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    At the fire safety class I went to, the fire marshall said the most dangerous thing you can do, is to keep that 2 gallon container of lawnmower gas in your garage.
    Hobbyist

  5. #20
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    Feb 2014
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    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
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    We have puppies going home over a couple of weeks. So far, the first three families picking them up, all from several states away, have been driving EV's. One a Kia, a Tesla, and I don't know what the one this morning was-something that starts with an I. I hope my diesel dually lasts long enough to be replaced by an electric one. I only need 100 mile range, but need the dually.

  6. #21
    or convert your truck. Converting classics seems to be advancing fast. My car builder friends hate I even look at this stuff. The first pick up is a five year old conversion. Last guy doing Porsches and other stuff, see an old vette there as well. I like my pick up the way it is but reality with a 411 rear im not going to be driving to LA.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4-NhZpD7SM


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q72dA533sCg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzXq7NYExDEDu



    Dually dont have time to watch it said the trailer will charge the truck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v-5GB7i10o
    Last edited by Warren Lake; 06-23-2022 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    I think you maybe looking at the stats incorrectly, the article isn't clear but maybe it is based on the cars lifetime not per year stats. So 3.5% of hybrids catch fire in their lifetime, assuming a 10 year lifetime (makes the math easy, kinda like the metric system but that's another thread), that's 0.35% in a year.
    I went and read the article and then followed the link to the source of the data. The source does not really tell you how the data should be interpreted. However, the EV data has a problem.

    If you go to the source, you'll see that EV fires are 25.1 per 100,000 sales, and the total number of fires is 52. This would indicate that there were 200,000 EV sales during the period analyzed. Unless this is some really old data, that's not accurate. Tesla, alone, sells more than 200,000 cars in a year in the US.

    So, even if the data is old, this would indicate that the sales figure is on a per year basis. If they're analyzing total number of fires in the fleet based on sales per year, their data would not be of much value. Taking an extreme case, let's say that no sales were made in a year but you'd still have fires in the fleet.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  8. #23
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    Here's a quote from a CNBC article "Research by another firm, AutoinsuranceEZ, says battery electric vehicles have just a .03% chance of igniting, compared to internal combustion engine vehicle’s 1.5% chance. Hybrid electrics, which have both a high voltage battery and an internal combustion engine, have a 3.4% likelihood of vehicle fires according to their study". Again, the time period is not stated and I don't know if this is based on the same database as the other study. I would consider this sloppy writing as it does not cleary say how frequent the fires are but it does clearly say EV's are less prone to fires that other vehicles. Any statisticians out there? If something has a x chance of happening on a given day does it have 365x chance of happening in a year?
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 06-23-2022 at 3:53 PM. Reason: corrected font size to be readable on large monitors

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    Here's a quote from a CNBC article "Research by another firm, AutoinsuranceEZ, says battery electric vehicles have just a .03% chance of igniting, compared to internal combustion engine vehicle’s 1.5% chance. Hybrid electrics, which have both a high voltage battery and an internal combustion engine, have a 3.4% likelihood of vehicle fires according to their study". Again, the time period is not stated and I don't know if this is based on the same database as the other study. I would consider this sloppy writing as it does not clearly say how frequent the fires are but it does clearly say EV's are less prone to fires that other vehicles. Any statisticians out there? If something has a x chance of happening on a given day does it have 365x chance of happening in a year?
    That's the same people who provided the questionable statistics for the NY Times article.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #25
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    The studies I have read about ICE vs EV fires don't take into account that there's a lot more ICE vehicles on the road. A real study would be one that looks at actual miles driven. It would also look into how many times did a fire start while the vehicle wasn't being operated. Also the average age of a vehicle is 11 years. So they are also older and more likely to be in worse shape. Then the question is where is a fire likely to happen. EV's are more likely to catch fire when charging (which is likely to be in a garage).

    As for the whole fire thing. Every vehicle has it's potential issues. Gasoline is dangerous so people have learned how to offset the dangers. For example if you smell gas you get the leak fixed and avoid sparks. With EVs it's just a matter of time before the major issues have solutions. It could be a simple way to discharge the battery if a car has been in an accident for example to reduce the chance of a fire at a later time.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Calow View Post
    At the fire safety class I went to, the fire marshall said the most dangerous thing you can do, is to keep that 2 gallon container of lawnmower gas in your garage.
    And yet the leading cause of a fire in a house is from cooking. Portable heaters are second, then electrical fires. A friend who was a chief said the most common garage fire they would see, by far, was someone deciding to use their BBQ inside the garage with the door open because it was raining out. I know of nobody (don't mean it never happens) who's had a gas can catch fire in their garage. In fact the only one I know about was a fool who decided a fire wasn't starting quick enough so they poured more gas on it.

  12. #27
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    Every time I read about someone cleaning parts, in the house, in gasoline they are always motorcycle parts. I do not think motor cycle parts are more likely to spontaneously combust. I bet the average motorcycle rider is more likely to be a smoker and to make poor decisions with out much forethought.
    Bill D

  13. #28
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    Feb 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    And yet the leading cause of a fire in a house is from cooking. Portable heaters are second, then electrical fires. A friend who was a chief said the most common garage fire they would see, by far, was someone deciding to use their BBQ inside the garage with the door open because it was raining out. I know of nobody (don't mean it never happens) who's had a gas can catch fire in their garage. In fact the only one I know about was a fool who decided a fire wasn't starting quick enough so they poured more gas on it.
    FWIW, the only thing the inspector dinged me on during my electrical inspection of my garage circuits was distance to the ground because of the issue with fires from gasoline cans.

  14. #29
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    The closest thing we ever had to a new car was a Ford Escort wagon. It burned almost to the ground because of an electrical problem. The gasoline never ignited even though the car looked like a charcoal briquette. I contacted Ford and a Lawyer they both laughed us off. The salvage company that hauled the car away for free tried several times over the preceding years to get the title from us. Turns out there was a class action suit against Ford. I still really want an EV. I continue to read about DIY options.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    Every time I read about someone cleaning parts, in the house, in gasoline they are always motorcycle parts. I do not think motor cycle parts are more likely to spontaneously combust. I bet the average motorcycle rider is more likely to be a smoker and to make poor decisions with out much forethought.
    Bill D
    Wow, guess you've not hung around many motorcyclists.

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