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Thread: Felder version of sawstop technology?

  1. #1

    Felder version of sawstop technology?

    I saw an ad for this in FWW and went looking for more info. I thought it was interesting and wanted to share, for those who might not be aware. Link

    The system allows you to quickly reset and get back to work.

    Apparently it is ok for tge US market - Felder plans to show it off at IWF-Atlanta this year.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    - Sir Edmund Burke

  2. #2
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    They've had it for a bit, AFAIK, but only on one or more "top tier" saws. Hopefully, the system will become available on the more modest machine offerings.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    We had one in the booth last summer in Vegas. The tech is fantastic and it works as advertised. I sold one to a TX shop but left the company before it got delivered, so never got a chance to visit it in production.

    Erik
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    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  4. #4
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    It’s not that new. Debuted pre-Covid at Ligna 2019

    Was discussed here back then :
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....n-saw-stoppage


    summary:

    Only available on Felder’s top of the range slider.
    $10k option on an already expensive saw.

  5. #5
    Wasn't aware, thanks for sharing. Good to see other company's adding safety tech. To me it doesn't appear to be SS tech. same idea but seems like a completely different way to stop an accident.

  6. #6
    The triggering method is same as SS (electrical circuit being created) but everything alse is different. The entire saw unit is attached to the underside of the cast iron table by pairs of super-industrial magnets. Once the circuit is created, the polarity on the magnets flips, driving the whole saw group below the deck. My uberstanding is that Felder designed this in conjunction with the engineering school at the University of Vienna. To me, the most surprising thing was how underwhelming the whole experience is. No loud bang or anything. More of a dull thud when the saw group drops. At that point, an alarm message pops up on the overhead control panel. You need to clear that, then the saw unit rises again. The entire process takes about 10 seconds IIRC.

    Again, I wasn’t around to see one delivered to one of my customers but do recall that the techs can apparently adjust the sensitivity of the trigger, in case the shop was dealing with “wet-ish” lumber at times. My buddies in Austria, who I still keep in touch with, tell me that PCS machines are selling hand-over-fist in Europe. Not sure what those metrics will look like over here. Also, I would not hold my breath for seeing PCS technology on any of the smaller saws.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    I saw an ad for this in FWW and went looking for more info. I thought it was interesting and wanted to share, for those who might not be aware. Link

    The system allows you to quickly reset and get back to work.

    Apparently it is ok for tge US market - Felder plans to show it off at IWF-Atlanta this year.
    Until I see a "hot dog video", I'll remain skeptical.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sabo View Post
    It’s not that new. Debuted pre-Covid at Ligna 2019

    Was discussed here back then :
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....n-saw-stoppage
    Yup. Must have forgotten that thread. Thank you.

    I dont do enough to warrant buying high end euro-tools, but that's just me. But what caught my attention was that this looks like a third method/approach to stopping an accident. (Sawstop, Bosch and now this one.) I find it hopeful that companies continue to develop these systems and I hope that someone someday builds one on a saw I can afford.
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 06-18-2022 at 12:48 PM.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    - Sir Edmund Burke

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Varley View Post
    Until I see a "hot dog video", I'll remain skeptical.
    Would an actual finger suffice ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFoo1ie9fYM


    hot dog if you insist
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv9p3xOJ1Yc


    And if you need more convincing...........16 min. in you get a hand and a hot dog

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMIbbt8km2o

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sabo View Post
    Would an actual finger suffice ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFoo1ie9fYM


    hot dog if you insist
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv9p3xOJ1Yc


    And if you need more convincing...........16 min. in you get a hand and a hot dog

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMIbbt8km2o
    We had one in the showroom in Toronto, works exactly as shown in the video, I demonstrated it several times to customers.

    It’s completely underwhelming, a muffled thump noise and the 16” blade is gone. Push reset, the saw mechanism travels down, turns the electro-magnet back on and brings the saw aggregate back to the setting it was in before the activation.

    I’m not as brave as Harry, I held a small piece of metal under my finger as I cut the wood……Regards, Rod

  11. #11
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    I'm wondering if part of this is the expiration of the SawStop patents. My understanding is that they were going to expire about this time, maybe last year, with a bit of staggering for various parts. Having a different approach wasn't sufficient to protect Bosch in court.

  12. #12
    IF you are in a trade you learn it instead of buying a gizmo. You can buy a super car and there are enough crash and burn youtubes of the people who havent got a clue how to handle the power. LIke many drivers of high end cars that cant really drive very well. Thats fact. Then there are people who go to driving schools to learn what their cars can do.

    The old guys i knew were taught what is safe and what is not and 50-60 years later had their fingers. They taught us dont do this or that and why. Its no guarantee but its 50 times better than learn off the net.

    Here is a salesman showing you how you their device will save you. In over 40 years on machines ive never once used this hand position shown. YOu need a drivers license to drive a car, you need visa to buy a saw.

    Here is my visa, I will learn as i go. Stuff happens so fast on a saw you will learn after its happened.





    Argh.JPG

  13. #13
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    I believe there are at least two sets of circumstances. Bad practices and accidents. Technology should not be viewed as a prevention against bad practices. While many / a lot / most / all (?) accidents are caused by some mistake somehow (operating when too tired; dirty floor or work surface; sudden distraction, etc) they do not happen by choice. I like the notion that technology can help avoid or reduce the impact of accidents, but completely agree that said technology should not be viewed as a panacea to poor work practices or unsafe work environment.

  14. #14
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    Hmmmm. I have been thinking about safety for 52 years* now as a pilot and am aware that endless training and experience can be defeated easily by fatigue. While I cut my teeth on WWII era airplanes and can still fly them, I do appreciate the crash prevention technology that my current airliner is loaded with. So do the passengers: if we were still crashing at the rate we were in the 70’s we would have a headline every week. It took a long time for my industry to accept that no one is infallible.

    When I had been woodworking for about 52 years I managed, at 4:15 after a long noisy day, to get my first machine injury. Power tools take no prisoners, and life altering events can happen faster than you can even process it until you notice the blood spray. If I was running a shop that could support a $40K saw upgrading for $10K would be a no-brainer. The monetary and human cost of one accident would make $10K seem like confetti in comparison.

    Greg

    *I fly in a country with no mandatory retirement age in case you were wondering about the math.
    Last edited by Greg Quenneville; 06-18-2022 at 6:34 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques Gagnon View Post
    I believe there are at least two sets of circumstances. Bad practices and accidents. Technology should not be viewed as a prevention against bad practices. While many / a lot / most / all (?) accidents are caused by some mistake somehow (operating when too tired; dirty floor or work surface; sudden distraction, etc) they do not happen by choice. I like the notion that technology can help avoid or reduce the impact of accidents, but completely agree that said technology should not be viewed as a panacea to poor work practices or unsafe work environment.
    Well said Jacques.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    - Sir Edmund Burke

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