Buff danish oil finish before applying poly?

[Rick Tilghman]

I'm doing a walnut countertop for a built-in. I'm close to wrapping up the danish oil, which is sanded in with multiple coats. My plan is to finish with GF HPW poly to seal and protect it once the DO finish fully cures (1-2 weeks).

The DO finish looks good, especially straight on, but there are some persistent hand rub marks when you look at it off angle in sunlight. My pre-sanding was meticulous and I definitely didn't leave any DO on the piece, so I think it's just hand rubbing marks in the DO finish (which I would normally polish out with poly, etc).

So, I'm debating buffing it to get a really consistent finish (orbital with a buffing pad probably). However, I'm not sure if that's advisable given I plan to finish it with poly. First, is it necessary, or will those hand rub marks just disappear under the poly? Second, will buffing the DO undermine the adhesion of the poly finish?

If anyone has any insights or thoughts I'd appreciate the guidance. Haven't done DO before (or poly over DO), and I'd like to avoid doing anything I have to unwind.

Thanks!
Rick

[Prashun Patel]

DO doesn't cure. Doesn't mean you can't put poly over it, but it's not a best practice.

I'd rethink your GF product. Most waterbased finishes aren't so bullet proof that they'd resist scratches. Your DO might in fact do a better job of that, and will be a little easier to repair over the years.

All this is coming from a person with a walnut countertop (my regimen was Waterlox followed by Target EM8000CV. It's good and works, and EM8000cv is about as durable as you can get in a wb product (for a homeowner). However, even this has developed some minor scratches that I'd love to fix. But doing so will require masking off the kitchen and respraying and then waiting for it to cure. The next wood countertop I ever do will have a product that can be repaired easily. The scratch thing is a bigger deal to me than the staining; if you get after spills relatively quickly, you won't have a problem.

Here's what you might do. Skip the waterbased, and wipe on a coat of waterlox original sealer finish. It's better compatible with the danish oil. Put on one or 2 coats only. If you leave it "in the wood" it's easy to repair - even spot repair if you need it. Waterlox is about the best homeowner varnish you can use. How good? I have a 10-yr old waterlox bar that gets abused and looks as good today as on day 1. I have a shower bench that gets showered on daily for the past 5-6 years. Perfect. Or do the Rubio.

Swirls will likely disappear under most top coats. I wouldn't buff and I certainly wouldn't use any compound. I would lightly sand with 800 or 1000 grit and then top coat.

[John TenEyck]

I agree with Prashun, WB products aren't the best choice over DO. But if you decide to go that route, I definitely would not buff the DO first. Actually, I would first sand it with 180 or 220 grit to give the finish something to bond to, and I might spray a coat of dewaxed shellac first, too. Sound like a terrible idea after you wet sanded in the DO? Well, it's better than having the poly peel off. It's also a strong reason not to go that route.

GF's High Performance cures to pretty hard, scratch resistant film. But as Prashun said, scratches aren't that easy to repair in a film finish. If you aren't going to be able to tolerate some scratches I'd just leave it with DO and wipe on some more when they occur. The scratch will still be there but the DO will mitigate the visual distraction.

John

[Rick Tilghman]

DO doesn't cure. Doesn't mean you can't put poly over it, but it's not a best practice.

I'd rethink your GF product. Most waterbased finishes aren't so bullet proof that they'd resist scratches. Your DO might in fact do a better job of that, and will be a little easier to repair over the years.

All this is coming from a person with a walnut countertop (my regimen was Waterlox followed by Target EM8000CV. It's good and works, and EM8000cv is about as durable as you can get in a wb product (for a homeowner). However, even this has developed some minor scratches that I'd love to fix. But doing so will require masking off the kitchen and respraying and then waiting for it to cure. The next wood countertop I ever do will have a product that can be repaired easily. The scratch thing is a bigger deal to me than the staining; if you get after spills relatively quickly, you won't have a problem.

Here's what you might do. Skip the waterbased, and wipe on a coat of waterlox original sealer finish. It's better compatible with the danish oil. Put on one or 2 coats only. If you leave it "in the wood" it's easy to repair - even spot repair if you need it. Waterlox is about the best homeowner varnish you can use. How good? I have a 10-yr old waterlox bar that gets abused and looks as good today as on day 1. I have a shower bench that gets showered on daily for the past 5-6 years. Perfect. Or do the Rubio.

Swirls will likely disappear under most top coats. I wouldn't buff and I certainly wouldn't use any compound. I would lightly sand with 800 or 1000 grit and then top coat.

Thanks guys, really appreciate all the detailed feedback and insights. Makes sense on not going with the GF... I've used water poly to finish all my previous projects, so I like it and trust it, but I've never finished a piece with DO before so I dont have a lot of experience protecting it.

So, couple of questions:

1) What is the coloring of the Waterlox? I'm looking for as clear a topcoat as I can get to allow the walnut/do to show through. However, I watched some Waterlox videos and it looks like the finish has a lot of brown/darker coloring. Does that dry out? Does it amber the finish even more? Does it yellow or anything as it ages like oil poly?

2) Do you need to let the DO fully cure before Waterlox? Like, 1-2 weeks of drying time to be safe?

3) Prashun: You mentioned sanding with 800/1000 and then top coating. I assume that's before any waterlox, sanding the cured/finished DO for the waterlox to adhere to? Those sanding marks will all disappear under the waterlox?

4) Any tips on applying the waterlox? The guidance I've seen is basically to apply each coat with 0000 (rubbing it in) and then wipe it all off with the grain, maybe 4-5 coats total.

For reference, here are a couple of photos of what I'm talking about with the DO finish (this is the counter bottom). Looks perfect head on, but lots of wipe marks off angle in sunlight. I wiped excess DO off completely during application and wiped/rubbed it down consistently ever hour or so after to address DO weeping.

IMG_2580.jpg IMG_2581.jpg

Thanks again for the help!

Best,
Rick

[Prashun Patel]

The waterlox will be a little bit darker. Honestly, now I'm thinking just leave the danish oil and don't top it. You can always do it later. Leave it for now. I believe your marks are just from rubbing too hard and long while the finish is setting. You COULD sand it lightly with some 600, 800, 1000, then apply another coat of DO, but I suspect even if you just wiped on another coat of DO without sanding, those marks would start to go away. Don't wet sand any more. Just wipe on, and wipe off. The quicker you go - i mean, don't be in a rush about it tho - the better.

[Rick Tilghman]

The waterlox will be a little bit darker. Honestly, now I'm thinking just leave the danish oil and don't top it. You can always do it later. Leave it for now. I believe your marks are just from rubbing too hard and long while the finish is setting. You COULD sand it lightly with some 600, 800, 1000, then apply another coat of DO, but I suspect even if you just wiped on another coat of DO without sanding, those marks would start to go away. Don't wet sand any more. Just wipe on, and wipe off. The quicker you go - i mean, don't be in a rush about it tho - the better.

Thanks for the follow-up. I suspect you're correct about the rub marks, and I plan to do a couple very light wipe on coats of DO to meld it.

While I agree on the easier fixability with straight DO, the problem with not top coating it once it's dry is two-fold; first, this is a counter on a built-in where I assume at least a few drinks will be placed over the years, and I dont believe the DO will protect against water marks? Even if I polish it in it's not a sealing finish, and it seems likely that a sweating glass (texas) will leave a mark. Second, the DO on it's own is REALLY flat, a little too flat for my taste in a countertop, and I don't think I can really polish the DO much or at all.

So, that leaves me with a few options, the easiest of which seems either poly or wax. Poly seems like the most maintenance free option...? I'm super nervous about water poly, even though I like the hardness and clarity vs oil poly. Man, finishing is such a headache, I probably should have just water polyd the counter to start with (no DO) and called it a day.

Lmk any thoughts.

Thanks,
Rick

[Steve Jenkins]

Where are you located Rick? If close enough to McKinney and the piece can be moved I’d be happy to spray it with solvent base conversion varnish. No charge.

[John Kananis]

I would just apply another coat of do, wipe off, dry. Hit it with a little sanding sealer and top coat with the poly.

Edit: just make sure your sanding sealer is delayed.

Edit2: you can try on scrap but I'm pretty confident you'll like the finish.