It's not about the shavings!

[Rob Luter]

Sunday morning coffee rant......

Like some of us I consume my fair share of woodworking related print and video media. A favorite is YouTube instructional bits on technique, tool use, tool restoration, and such. How is it that many of the the guys doing vids on plane use and restoration completely miss the purpose of bench planes? No, it's not to produce "gossamer shavings". It's to work the wood surface to reduce thickness, create uniformity, and to smooth it to a finish ready condition. While your shaving is a good indicator of uniformity and depth of cut, it ain't the end product. I'd like to see more of these pieces focus on the surface finish you're left with rather than the waste that falls on the floor.

[Jim Koepke]

Many years ago at a Tool Event one of Ron Hock's blades was being given a test drive. As we were talking I picked up one of the shavings. He pointed to the shaving and said, "that isn't why people buy my blades." He then pointed to the surface of the piece of wood and said, "this is why they buy them."

A properly fettled and tuned up plane should be able to take a range of shavings. A jointer does not need to take "gossamer shavings" to do its job well or properly.

There is a usefulness to "gossamer shavings."

When fettling a plane a concave or even convex sole is not likely to be able to repeatedly produce a fine shaving. Part of trouble shooting a plane is "reading" the shaving or how the plane acts on the surface being planed.

On final smoothing, the thinner the shaving the less likely there will be tear out. It isn't likely to have a 0.020" divot torn out by a 0.001" shaving.

Finally thin shavings can inform a user of their blade's condition or if it is in need of sharpening.

One point to consider, by measuring my shavings at times it has "calibrated" my eye. When removing extra material it can often be calculated how many shavings need to be taken to reach my line. If it is too many, the blade can be adjusted to make it less.

Often times "gossamer shavings" are just a way to show off and gloat.

Yes, I am guilty of showing off and gloating.

jtk

[steven c newman]

"gossamer shavings" with a Stanley 45....
June Project, too many noodles.JPG
Took 33 passes, just to go down 1/4" ...takes way to long..

Friday Morning, almost done.JPG
Now set up as a "working" plane, instead of a "Showboat" plane....6 passes to reach 1/4" depth.....

YMMV...

[Jim Koepke]

"gossamer shavings" with a Stanley 45....
June Project, too many noodles.JPG
Took 33 passes, just to go down 1/4" ...takes way to long..

Friday Morning, almost done.JPG
Now set up as a "working" plane, instead of a "Showboat" plane....6 passes to reach 1/4" depth.....

YMMV...

33 passes to go 1/4" does not a "gossamer shaving" make. It works out to more than 0.007" for the shavings. Maybe you have a different meaning for "gossamer."

Your thick shaving set up with 6 passes to reach 1/4" (~0.041" per shaving) looks a mess and your arrow points to what looks like one end being higher than the other. There is likely a sweet spot somewhere between the two settings.

The plane is not usually the last cutting device to touch the work.

My surfaces are seldom worked after the last smoothing plane. My sandpaper consumption has been almost non-existent in the past several years.

jtk

[Edward Weber]

I agree with the OP's frustration with the Tubers.
As other have pointed out quite well, you can learn an awful lot by being able to read the shavings but you then need to adjust your work according to what they tell you.
Like most, I also enjoy it when I achieve that sweet setup that gets you the perfect cut but it's a short lived victory if the underlying wood is not the proper dimension.
You can plane for removing unwanted material or you can plane for finishing a surface. Most tubers only show the thin wispy shavings no matter what they're actually doing. This is just another way of misleading people into thinking that it's the proper way to work. Spoiler; it doesn't always look like it does on YT, it's called editing.

This is the only time I can remember taking a photo of my shavings, after I got my (new to me) plane set the way I liked.
IMG_0288 (600 x 400).jpg
The rest of the debris, the stuff that wasn't camera ready, just ends up in the bin

[Rob Luter]

Jim and Derek - like I said, the shaving is a good indicator of uniformity and depth of cut. On certain woods it will communicate edge quality and geometry too. Nicks in a cutter are tougher to see with oak than maple. Yes, you can go to school on a shaving. My point was that the narrative seems to always be that it’s a tool to make shavings. If you’re using a spill plane to make fire starters maybe. Otherwise it’s a tool to surface wood.

[steven c newman]

Gossamer Shavings do have a use.....like when someone is trying to sell their "New & Improved" Sharpening System......or, when you are in Japan, taking part in a contest about shavings...

Also, if you are getting full width, full length Gossamer shavings...means you are done...unless you just want to stand around making them all day....

[steven c newman]

For a Stanley #45...that is just too many shavings ( and yes, I counted the passes...)

As for the "start" of that rebate being higher? EVERYONE knows one work back...and the far end gets done first....just the way the plane works..as you well know. As far that "mess"...that is 3 passes worth...right before I clear them out.
Normal for me shavings..
A Busy Tuesday, Flatten a panel.JPG
#8c to flatten a panel?
June Project, edge shavings.JPG
Or, just jointing an end....

YMMV, of course.....

[Prashun Patel]

Beg to differ. I'm impressed with Youtubers and anyone who is out there doing stuff. Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations, but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened. Instead many new, young people are getting involved in making things and feeling empowered.

As for gossamer shavings, I don't understand why it's annoying. It's a noble goal. Who's saying it is required in every situation? If you need a thicker cut, take a thicker cut. Has there been any video saying otherwise?

I'll tell you what gets my goat: experts complaining about novices. The vast majority of novices - even youtubers - are humble and learning and don't present themselves as knowing it all. But experts on the other hand seem to get easily offended.

[Tom M King]

Also, if you can take a shaving with a no. 8 on a 12' 2x3 suspended on the ends, you know you're not pushing down on a plane too hard. I like a no.8 for leveling pieces, since it can almost find its own flat plane. I needed to take some twist out of some handrail pieces, and didn't want to take a lot of meat off on a jointer.

[Edward Weber]

Beg to differ. I'm impressed with Youtubers and anyone who is out there doing stuff. Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations, but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened. Instead many new, young people are getting involved in making things and feeling empowered.

As for gossamer shavings, I don't understand why it's annoying. It's a noble goal. Who's saying it is required in every situation? If you need a thicker cut, take a thicker cut. Has there been any video saying otherwise?

I'll tell you what gets my goat: experts complaining about novices. The vast majority of novices - even youtubers - are humble and learning and don't present themselves as knowing it all. But experts on the other hand seem to get easily offended.

I can only speak for myself but it's not about experts or those with a higher skill level complaining about novices. It is much more nuanced than that.
I'm all for going out to the shop and trying your hand at whatever strikes your fancy BUT you still need to follow some basic rules.

" Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened."

I can't disagree with that statement strongly enough. It is not theoretical at all and it can result in serious harm and death.
(In the news recently, deaths due to fractal burning)

The gossamer shavings is just one example of a deeper issue, they are shown as an eye catching device to gain the attention of the viewer but all the information as to why, how, etc. behind those shavings is typically missing or glossed over.
While whispy little wood shaving won't harm anyone, over simplification of anything can have consequences.
Look at all the people using angle grinders like there are toys, that's dangerous, especially without knowledge of the tool, which it seems many don't have.

One woodworking example I have seen many times is a wedged tenon used improperly, with the wedge parallel to the mortised piece of wood. This alignment can result in a failure of the joint and injury.
Now many times the person made the joint properly but doesn't have an understanding of why it's designed and used in a certain orientation, benefiting from the wedging perpendicular to the grain to add strength.
I have seen this on a stool of similar design at least 5 times. This was obviously copied from one to another, with the same incorrect use of the joint.

Remember just because no one got hurt, doesn't mean is was not dangerous or a smart thing to do.

As Jim said "This is where an individual viewer needs to decide whether or not the presenter is playing with a full deck."
This implies that the viewer knows enough to tell if he is.
This is also how bad (dangerous) habits get started.
JMNSHO

[Prashun Patel]

I learned completely on the internet (and this forum). I made mistakes (mostly aesthetic crimes against humanity). I spoke out of turn (still do). But I learned.

Now, I strongly agree that the DIY home channels showing free-hand cutting on a tablesaw without a guard or riving knife are criminal. But as for the wispy shavings conspiracy, it's just not a big deal. It feels more like experts complaining that some of us haven't earned our stripes.

People get over zealous when they learn a skill. They talk out of school. Then they settle down. It's how things progress. We'd do better to view that with amusement instead of discouraging derision.

I guess for me fundamentally it feels ok that newbies have a ton of confidence. For a lot of the experts, that seems to offend. "You just haven't earned it yet, Baby." That feels to me just unproductive.

Wispy shavings. Who cares?!

[Clifford McGuire]

I think there's a difference between Youtubers that want to share knowledge and those that want to make money. Chasing sponsors, padding the video length to get that extra commercial in, and such are more content creaters than woodworkers.

But I can think of two instances in the past year that were made so much better via Youtube.
1) DavidW's unicorn sharpening method.
2) Patrick Sullivan's end grain glue strength comparisons.

There's probably others, but those two come immediately to mind.

[Mike Allen1010]

Beg to differ. I'm impressed with Youtubers and anyone who is out there doing stuff. Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations, but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened. Instead many new, young people are getting involved in making things and feeling empowered.

As for gossamer shavings, I don't understand why it's annoying. It's a noble goal. Who's saying it is required in every situation? If you need a thicker cut, take a thicker cut. Has there been any video saying otherwise?

I'll tell you what gets my goat: experts complaining about novices. The vast majority of novices - even youtubers - are humble and learning and don't present themselves as knowing it all. But experts on the other hand seem to get easily offended.

+1, well said Prashun. A little empathy for beginners, and humility about one’s own skills goes a long way to creating healthy dialogue. Just IMHO, YMMV.

[steven c newman]

1 hour and 15 minutes of working the planes...and nothing else...
A day of cramps & planes, busy day.JPG
Filled half a 5 gallon bucket.....