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Thread: It's not about the shavings!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Rosenthal View Post
    Even though it’s primarily dedicated to chairmaking, I’ve learned more about hand tool woodworking watching Curtis Buchanan’s channel than anywhere else. Most woodworking YouTubers are not worth the time.
    Curtis is the man. I love his work, his attitude, and his videos. I’m 62 and I’d like to apprentice with him.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  2. #17
    YouTube woodworkers may be novices, but if I need to do something like take a tricky door panel off a car, I usually find useful information on YouTube.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    YouTube woodworkers may be novices, but if I need to do something like take a tricky door panel off a car, I usually find useful information on YouTube.
    YouTube is an incredible asset to have and I've used it many times for things like your example BUT.
    If you don't know the basics, you're just as likely to find the guy who takes off the door panel with a crow bar.
    JMHO

  4. #19
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    Sometimes a shaving can be used to make a point. I was sent an A2 iron by someone because he couldn't get it sharp. I still don't like the way A2 feels, but you can get it sharp. This shaving is not very wide because the iron had a camber of a couple of thou, and if I had taken a full shaving, it wouldn't have been its thinnest.

    I like youtube for mechanic work too. Often, I'll save half the time it would have taken figuring it out on my own, and even started with the right size wrenches laid out.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    YouTube woodworkers may be novices, but if I need to do something like take a tricky door panel off a car, I usually find useful information on YouTube.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Weber View Post
    YouTube is an incredible asset to have and I've used it many times for things like your example BUT.
    If you don't know the basics, you're just as likely to find the guy who takes off the door panel with a crow bar.
    JMHO
    This is where an individual viewer needs to decide whether or not the presenter is playing with a full deck.

    There is always going to be some know it all who can mess up pouring water out of a boot. Sadly there is always a percentage of people who will give them an avid following.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #21
    Beg to differ. I'm impressed with Youtubers and anyone who is out there doing stuff. Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations, but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened. Instead many new, young people are getting involved in making things and feeling empowered.

    As for gossamer shavings, I don't understand why it's annoying. It's a noble goal. Who's saying it is required in every situation? If you need a thicker cut, take a thicker cut. Has there been any video saying otherwise?

    I'll tell you what gets my goat: experts complaining about novices. The vast majority of novices - even youtubers - are humble and learning and don't present themselves as knowing it all. But experts on the other hand seem to get easily offended.

  7. #22
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    Also, if you can take a shaving with a no. 8 on a 12' 2x3 suspended on the ends, you know you're not pushing down on a plane too hard. I like a no.8 for leveling pieces, since it can almost find its own flat plane. I needed to take some twist out of some handrail pieces, and didn't want to take a lot of meat off on a jointer.
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  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Beg to differ. I'm impressed with Youtubers and anyone who is out there doing stuff. Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations, but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened. Instead many new, young people are getting involved in making things and feeling empowered.

    As for gossamer shavings, I don't understand why it's annoying. It's a noble goal. Who's saying it is required in every situation? If you need a thicker cut, take a thicker cut. Has there been any video saying otherwise?

    I'll tell you what gets my goat: experts complaining about novices. The vast majority of novices - even youtubers - are humble and learning and don't present themselves as knowing it all. But experts on the other hand seem to get easily offended.
    I can only speak for myself but it's not about experts or those with a higher skill level complaining about novices. It is much more nuanced than that.
    I'm all for going out to the shop and trying your hand at whatever strikes your fancy BUT you still need to follow some basic rules.

    " Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened."

    I can't disagree with that statement strongly enough. It is not theoretical at all and it can result in serious harm and death.
    (In the news recently, deaths due to fractal burning)

    The gossamer shavings is just one example of a deeper issue, they are shown as an eye catching device to gain the attention of the viewer but all the information as to why, how, etc. behind those shavings is typically missing or glossed over.
    While whispy little wood shaving won't harm anyone, over simplification of anything can have consequences.
    Look at all the people using angle grinders like there are toys, that's dangerous, especially without knowledge of the tool, which it seems many don't have.

    One woodworking example I have seen many times is a wedged tenon used improperly, with the wedge parallel to the mortised piece of wood. This alignment can result in a failure of the joint and injury.
    Now many times the person made the joint properly but doesn't have an understanding of why it's designed and used in a certain orientation, benefiting from the wedging perpendicular to the grain to add strength.
    I have seen this on a stool of similar design at least 5 times. This was obviously copied from one to another, with the same incorrect use of the joint.

    Remember just because no one got hurt, doesn't mean is was not dangerous or a smart thing to do.

    As Jim said "This is where an individual viewer needs to decide whether or not the presenter is playing with a full deck."
    This implies that the viewer knows enough to tell if he is.
    This is also how bad (dangerous) habits get started.
    JMNSHO

  9. #24
    Regarding YouTube video quality, remember that most of what you're seeing is produced to generate clicks for views, and to get viewers to watch as much of a video as possible. This is the kind of stuff that makes a video show up in more feeds.

    That viewer engagement equation doesn't center on being a decent woodworker. Video production is its own world of skill and skill acquisition. This is speaking from experience--my first experimental video was kinda "meh," and maybe I'm improving as I've made a couple more, though I'm still not really sure why I'm doing it.

    Interestingly, lately there's been a lot of chatter among the video creators that it's been more difficult to get views, and a complaint that project videos are no longer worth making. So you're seeing content drift in certain directions, and a lot more trashy clickbait thumbnails and such. I personally wonder if it's a cycle that's feeding on itself.

  10. #25
    I learned completely on the internet (and this forum). I made mistakes (mostly aesthetic crimes against humanity). I spoke out of turn (still do). But I learned.

    Now, I strongly agree that the DIY home channels showing free-hand cutting on a tablesaw without a guard or riving knife are criminal. But as for the wispy shavings conspiracy, it's just not a big deal. It feels more like experts complaining that some of us haven't earned our stripes.

    People get over zealous when they learn a skill. They talk out of school. Then they settle down. It's how things progress. We'd do better to view that with amusement instead of discouraging derision.

    I guess for me fundamentally it feels ok that newbies have a ton of confidence. For a lot of the experts, that seems to offend. "You just haven't earned it yet, Baby." That feels to me just unproductive.

    Wispy shavings. Who cares?!

  11. #26
    I think there's a difference between Youtubers that want to share knowledge and those that want to make money. Chasing sponsors, padding the video length to get that extra commercial in, and such are more content creaters than woodworkers.

    But I can think of two instances in the past year that were made so much better via Youtube.
    1) DavidW's unicorn sharpening method.
    2) Patrick Sullivan's end grain glue strength comparisons.

    There's probably others, but those two come immediately to mind.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Beg to differ. I'm impressed with Youtubers and anyone who is out there doing stuff. Who cares? What's the harm? Theoretically the bad advice may result in some dangerous situations, but by and large that doesn't appear to have happened. Instead many new, young people are getting involved in making things and feeling empowered.

    As for gossamer shavings, I don't understand why it's annoying. It's a noble goal. Who's saying it is required in every situation? If you need a thicker cut, take a thicker cut. Has there been any video saying otherwise?

    I'll tell you what gets my goat: experts complaining about novices. The vast majority of novices - even youtubers - are humble and learning and don't present themselves as knowing it all. But experts on the other hand seem to get easily offended.
    +1, well said Prashun. A little empathy for beginners, and humility about one’s own skills goes a long way to creating healthy dialogue. Just IMHO, YMMV.

  13. #28
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    1 hour and 15 minutes of working the planes...and nothing else...
    A day of cramps & planes, busy day.JPG
    Filled half a 5 gallon bucket.....
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  14. #29
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    There isn't a working clock in my shop, so the time spent on this is unknown.

    This was just one of the boxes filled by a poplar 4"X10"X7' plank:

    Jorge Clampet.jpg

    This was the final smoothing done with a #6. The clamping on this shows why my preference is for at least a small apron on my bench.

    Anyone who uses wood heat in the winter has a good use for the shavings.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #30
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    Mine was set by the unset of Heat Cramps...had to stop...still had more to do, TODAY...but...
    A day of cramps & planes, 3rd bevel fitted.JPG
    I guess I could finish this Maple lid..tomorrow?

    Wonder...could I throw the Maple shaving in to the Charcoal Grill? Hmmmm...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

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