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Thread: Garage cost...are you kidding me?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    ....
    On the grade board, they are PT for ground contact and it's now common to tape/coat the bottom. That, combined with stone that drains really helps prolong life. But yes, proper grading, as with any kind of building is absolutely essential. When you do see rot on grade boards, it's most likely going to be because of inattention to ground water and/or other water leaks from above.
    I wonder if the quality of pressure treating has decreased, at least for what is sold at the box store. I had a low 10x10 deck for the dogs not in contact with the ground - PT deck boards rotted in places enough to stick my foot through. Rebuild - the same thing happened after about 8 years. Rebuilt it from scratch with Trex.

    I also had a small deck on a slope 3-4' above the (well drained) ground. Not only did the PT deck boards rot through after about 10 years but the beams and joists did too in places. The only thing that didn't rot was the posts in the ground. I replaced the entire thing, decking with trex this time.

    JKJ

  2. #62
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    Local hvac wholesalers were all higher than Amazon when I bought my mini-split heat pump in November 2021 and none had them in stock. Free shipping too and it was here in 4 days. I went with a Daikin 19 seer 24000 btu kit which included everything except the outside disconnect for my 24' x 38' shop. Comes with a 12 year warranty but to get it you will need to have an hvac guy sign off on the installation.

  3. #63
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    Although they have come down some, prices are still high. I would suggest having someone frame it then doing the interior yourself. Takes time and working alone at 64 took longer yet, I'm 68 now and saved a small fortune that way, but to date I've spent $15k on materials.

    Mine is in the upper 3 bays of our detached 38'x38' block garage and the shop is 24' x 38', with 8' x 8' pallet racks for lumber storage and 2 dust collectors taking up part of the lower bay. Main shop is fully insulated with R21 walls and R30+ in the ceiling, new 200a panel, 2 ton mini split heat pump, LED lighting and wiring in conduit. I did break down and pay a contractor $800 to install new continuous gutters and downspouts. Ceiling in lower bay is insulated and I have an estimate of $1500 for the metal roofing materials which I will be installing.

    You could also save by getting separate bids for everything. Most contractors charge you a percentage on top of what they are actually paying their subs. Many also mark up the price of materials so you can save there by buying it yourself and likely get better quality materials. Being a vet, Lowe's will give you a 10% discount on everything you buy there and their bulk prices will save you at least another 10%. Home depot isn't nearly as kind, but if you register as a contractor and buy thru their Pro desk they too will give you a discount.
    Last edited by Ron Hampe; 06-29-2022 at 12:03 AM.

  4. #64
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    If you want to save money when buying materials, ask your building supplier if they have damaged sheet good prices. I bought siding for my shop with slightly damaged corners and edges where someone bumped it with a fork lift. Didn't affect the construction or appearance at all. They sold it for $5/sheet (a few years back).

    I only buy from the pro building suppliers, never from HD or Lowes. I usually bought in bulk (bundle, "unit") and hauled it myself.

    JKJ

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I wonder if the quality of pressure treating has decreased, at least for what is sold at the box store.
    I believe that is true to a certain extent in the retail outlets...one has to be really careful about the description/specifications for the particular product they are buying for sure. There are multiple grades of pressure treatment...it's not all the same and that's not necessarily evident on retail shelf price stickers. Post Frame builders tend to buy their laminated poles from specialty manufacturers and one would hope that the preservation process being used on the in-ground portion of the post is up to the task, particularly with the so-called "lifetime" warranty many builders offer on them, including my builder. I would also imagine, but can't say for sure, that many of these same builders are buying their PT sticks in bunks, maybe directly from the treatment folks. Hopefully, that would mean the correct product for ground contact elements, such as grade boards. Hard to say, however...different firms take different attitudes about material purchasing. Some embrace the best they can get for the long term benefits it brings and others buy "best price" to maximize profit at all costs. It's no different than any other kind of business.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I believe that is true to a certain extent in the retail outlets...one has to be really careful about the description/specifications for the particular product they are buying for sure. There are multiple grades of pressure treatment...it's not all the same and that's not necessarily evident on retail shelf price stickers. Post Frame builders tend to buy their laminated poles from specialty manufacturers and one would hope that the preservation process being used on the in-ground portion of the post is up to the task, particularly with the so-called "lifetime" warranty many builders offer on them, including my builder. I would also imagine, but can't say for sure, that many of these same builders are buying their PT sticks in bunks, maybe directly from the treatment folks. Hopefully, that would mean the correct product for ground contact elements, such as grade boards. Hard to say, however...different firms take different attitudes about material purchasing. Some embrace the best they can get for the long term benefits it brings and others buy "best price" to maximize profit at all costs. It's no different than any other kind of business.
    ask what spec they are using. my building came with all SYP structural grade lumber I don't recall the % for the treatment though.

  7. #67
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    Yes, post frame builders have to use certain grades of lumber for certain purposes which isn't unlike with stick framing. Those beefy horizontal boards at the top that support the trusses are a good example. SYP at a specific grade is indicated there...the nomenclature starts with an "M" but I forget the rest of the acronym. Treated is typically only for the posts and grade boards since they have ground contact. For girts and purlins, things are generally untreated and the requirements are sometimes a little less strict because they are not supporting the building, per se, outside of keeping things square and providing a place to hang the exterior finishes, such as the typical vertical metal panels or sheathing if regular siding and/or roofing is chosen. But it's still good lumber that gets used. Bigger buildings get beefier girts and purlins, however, as that makes for a stiffer structure when the wind howls.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I wonder if the quality of pressure treating has decreased, at least for what is sold at the box store.
    JKJ

    About 20 years ago CCA pressure treating started being replaced by ACQ. Chromated copper arsenate vs alkaline copper quaternary. Probably a scary chemical in the old CCA stuff that had been in use since the 30's. The new ACQ stuff is more corrosive to fasteners and isn't as good in ground contact. Menards still carries some CCA for use in ground contact situations, specifically in pole sheds. I don't think any CCA is still made in the states so maybe they are using old stock.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Rozmiarek View Post
    About 20 years ago CCA pressure treating started being replaced by ACQ. Chromated copper arsenate vs alkaline copper quaternary. Probably a scary chemical in the old CCA stuff that had been in use since the 30's. The new ACQ stuff is more corrosive to fasteners and isn't as good in ground contact. Menards still carries some CCA for use in ground contact situations, specifically in pole sheds. I don't think any CCA is still made in the states so maybe they are using old stock.
    and there is another, i found a tag from my buildings lumber.

    it is micronized copper azole MCA

  10. #70
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    Is that the brown one, Adam?
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #71
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    Thanks everyone for the thoughts/ideas. I've decided to wait until next year and see what happens with prices. Our new house has an attached 4-car garage (although 4 would be tight), but with two cars, kids bikes/toys and yard stuff I managed to claim most of one bay (I have to pull my car out for bigger projects). It's tight, but I managed to get just about everything set up in a usable way. It will do for now, but no heat or cooling. I have a pretty long honey-do list being a new house, so "fun" woodworking isn't going to happen until next spring anyway.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Herman View Post
    and there is another, i found a tag from my buildings lumber.

    it is micronized copper azole MCA
    Good catch! You are correct.

    A subcategory of the ACQ is AC2, which is a heavier application of ACQ. This is the cedar tone "ground contact" rated pressure treated decking stuff, it's brown. Maybe that's the one you mentioned Jim? Where it is actually ground contact rated, it might make good grade boards? I've never used it for that application. It is well marked with warnings to only use triple coated hot galvanized or stainless fasteners only. I'd be leary about it being in direct contact with the steel sheets, definitely would want a barrier in there.

  13. #73
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    I haven't actually seen the "brown" stuff in this area...I was just curious if that was what was referenced.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #74
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    Gasp! Park a car in the garage? (I jest with a bit of jealousy)
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Charles View Post
    Gasp! Park a car in the garage? (I jest with a bit of jealousy)
    Yea, really...that's almost sacrilege! That said, once I have my shop building up, we will, for the first time in our adult lifetimes have the actual ability to park inside a garage. That certainly can be a nice thing, but it's also a potential liability as Professor Dr. SWMBO has challenges with "spatial navigation" and I seriously worry about her ability to use the garage without hitting something. I'm not saying this as a joke, unfortunately...it's a real issue that's sadly getting worse. Maybe we'll go to one vehicle once she retires which potentially will make this easier on my mind since that makes for a lot more room on the sides while parking in there.

    {end digression}
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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