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Thread: Garage cost...are you kidding me?

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric Jones View Post
    ...as noted struggling with locating my major tools.
    i have two wood lathes, two 10 inc table saws one with a sliding table, two band saws, 2 floor drill presses, router table, chop saw on stand, misc. roll around flip carts, having moved after i sold my building near us from 2k sf ft. to my new to me shop.
    I'm slowly getting it figured out, even though i had a few years to plan it, once i got it enclosed, the struggle began, my friend Tom who has a shop about same size, says he still moves things to maybe adjust the flow, lol,
    so i'm leaving the crap on wheels at my age three quarters of a century moving a cabinet saw sucks.

    remember build it big, once and don't look back,...
    That's good advice! I'm 72 now and I'd hate to even think about building another shop.

    I tried to plan to avoid moving things. It was mostly successful. I had bought the major tools before I built the shop (I was afraid I might be too broke later) so I knew the footprints and infeed-outfeed space needed. I made plan after plan until I was satisfied. I ended up leaving one bandsaw in the garage and the third big lathe in a storage building unless needed. By planning before construction I could easily do things like position some double doors to allow for longer infeed/outfeed on the table saw if needed. For someone in the planning stage, I highly recommend this method: make a scale drawing and scale cutouts from paper. This is part of one plan, in progress, still sliding things around:

    layout_paper_2.jpg

    I also made some paper circles representing the minimum and desired passage space between tools, bench, etc. and "walked" them through the candidate plans. When I got things finalized I taped down the paper slips and made a drawing. I did similar planning for the electrical outlets, lights, and air compressor lines, long before I started working putting up the building. Making these plans even helped me decide where to put some of the interior walls.

    Although I am well experienced in 2D and 3D drawing/modeling, I found it easier and quicker to do it the old way with paper cutouts.

    As mentioned elsewhere, my shop is 24x62. The length was limited by the site but to this day I wish I had made it 30' wide instead of 24. That wouldn't have cost much more.

    shop_floorplan.jpg

    I did make some minor changes as I changed directions (e.g., put in incubators for peacocks/guineas in a corner of the main shop and used what is labeled as maintenance bays primarily for raising birds, turning wood storage, little machine shop, and fluids and filters for equipment maintenance), but the basic planning has mostly worked well. The drum sander is on wheels but the cabinet saw hasn't been budged even an inch since set into place. One thing I did change my mind about was the number and placement of windows. I realized that wall space was more valuable to me than the natural light and view so I eliminated several windows. It's just a few steps to where I can see the barn, llamas, and bird pens. I have daylight fixtures so bright one visitor said he needed sun glasses. Works for me.

    JKJ

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    Georgia
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    244
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Rozmiarek View Post
    With truss prices tripling here, we're going back to hand framing roofs where we can as it is now cheaper and more importantly no 6 month lead time. This is with a full crew.
    I know you guys are mostly talking wood and housing but last I heard Nucor is 12+ months out on bar joist.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    37
    We are getting ready to rebuild an old house and are stalled because our window delivery is 6 months out. The garage door we selected was quoted as 6-12 month delivery! (we selected a different door with a 2 week delivery)

  4. #49
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    Mar 2014
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    Iowa USA
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    In 1999 when I was teaching (HVAC/R) I would go in early and get off at 2 pm. The program next to me was the Building Trades carpenter one. The instructor and I were friends and he gave me a copy of the textbook they used.

    I decided I could DIY a 24x24 with 9 foot ceilings garage - shop. Ordered the Kit from Menards and it came with Everything. I did my concrete forms and hired the pour and finishing. Did the rest of the build myself, with my son helping with the trusses. I had never built anything like that before, took my time and followed the prints and the textbook.

    When I was done I had maybe $12,000 and that included insulation, drywall, wiring and heat and cool. Heat was a scratch and dent gas heater Reznor, AC was used window unit. Wiring was overkill and same for the lights. It took me 3 years to get it all done.

    I would imagine todays cost with me DIY would be $36,000. Heck lumber is so high now I am holding off re-siding my shed!
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa. , LightObject 40w CO2 Laser and Chiller , WorkBee 1000x750 CNC Router - Mach4 - Windows 10

  5. #50
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    Oct 2005
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    Helensburgh, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Building it yourself is definitely not for everybody.

    Much may depend on if you are completely retired or not. Other factors may be your level of construction experience, electrical knowhow, design skills, energy level and drive, ability to stay focused for an extended time, financial motivation, and yes, patience. A one-man crew will of course take longer.

    From clearing and site prep to plumbing the air compressor lines and turning on the cyclone DC took me several years. I wouldn’t have considered it when still working a full-time job. For me, having backhoe, bobcat, and other equipment on hand instead having to hire or rent was also a consideration. But a huge factor for me was not ending up with the sloppy work i’ve seen from some get-it-done “professionals”.

    JKJ
    I built mine while working one full time job, one part time job and doing tertiary studies. I got it done in about 3 years and had I known how much it was going to cost would never have started it. We set up floodlights because after dark was too valuable to not be using the hours.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  6. #51
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    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    I actually did consider doing the build myself...and after careful consideration, chose to "pick my battles". I'll still save a lot of cost relative to the things I do, but I decided it was better to have folks who "do it every day" get the actual structure up as that's the hardest labor and best done with a crew. They'll do that in two days, not including the "drilling day", while it would likely take me weeks to accomplish the same, and that's assuming I could get the help needed. So the building, the concrete and the basic electrical service get done by the "pros" in my case.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #52
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    Oct 2005
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    Helensburgh, Australia
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    I should have added I was 40 years younger than I am now. It is a two level building built into the side of a very steep slope and just digging the hole took a year. I chose to dig the hole and get contractors to do the slab and erect the block retaining walls. I made up the story as I went because I had absolutely no idea of what I was doing, I do mean none. I had helped build a house many years before but that had been because I had to and I took no interest in the process at all. I think in my country costs have risen so much it is now worthwhile to do it yourself but I feel that no one has the patience and long term view to do it these days. As for working two jobs to get the money, if I mention that to younger people they look at me as if I have a screw loose. I vividly recall standing and looking at the area to be excavated and thinking where in the hell do I start.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  8. #53
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    Mar 2014
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    Los Angeles
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    Jim (and anyone else) can you tell me why post and beam is cheaper than stick framing?
    In the next few years I might want to build a 4-car garage workshop, so information like this is important to understand.

  9. #54
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    Feb 2019
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    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I'll still save a lot of cost relative to the things I do, but I decided it was better to have folks who "do it every day" get the actual structure up as that's the hardest labor and best done with a crew.
    FWIW, I found framing the walls to be fine. I was a bit intimidated at first, but a standard 8' section of wall is very doable with one person. The rafters were also intimidating, but honestly that was easily done piece by piece. Might be a different story with prebuild rafters. I did have to have some help putting in the header over the double garage door, which was 2x12x16 + 1/2 piece of plywood between. That I think worked out to about 200# or so.

    Concrete definitely needs a crew, but I was able to pour my own with a bunch of buddies doing the moving and dumping.

    Roofing is usually going to be 1-2 guys. My brother and I installed the previous roof over the 24x24' garage, and I was able to install a metal roof over the new 40'x24' garage by myself over the course of a couple of days.

    Siding was pretty simple since I was using zip siding. Probably would have been a bit easier with a helper to hold while I nailed, but I was able to do it myself.

    The double garage door needed a buddy to help move the pieces, but the rest of the install was a solo project. I managed to talk my wife into helping, since it was mostly awkward, rather than heavy.

    All told I think I spent 2-3 weeks on it. A crew might have been a bit quicker, but I was also working some very long days in a way most crews would not.

    I understand everybody is going to have different capabilities and talents, but this is definitely a project that can be mostly done solo with a little help here and there.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gibney View Post
    Jim (and anyone else) can you tell me why post and beam is cheaper than stick framing?
    In the next few years I might want to build a 4-car garage workshop, so information like this is important to understand.
    Post frame (which is different than post and beam) and often also called a "pole barn", goes up very quickly which brings substantially less labor to the party. It's also a less complicated structure as the posts carry all the weight...stick framed, you're dealing with headers and more involved load transfer. This is for the basic structure, of course. How you finish it out will affect the cost. Typical metal cladding installed vertically is less labor intensive and less costly than sheathing and some form of siding. Stick frame nearly always has to be sheathed for structural reasons. That's not necessary with post-frame. But many folks do clad a post frame building with sheathing and normal siding when that's what's required for appearances. It adds cost, but may still be less expensive than a typical stick frame building. One other aspect comes into play here, too...wall height. Stick framing taller walls gets to be "fun". Post frame, for the most part, doesn't care. Bigger and taller buildings are just engineered to use heaver laminated posts and the doubled connections across the posts along the sides that support the trusses are just beefed up further based on normal and local engineering requirements. A small building like mine uses three ply laminated posts that are nominally 6" in cross section. IT literally will be built from the ground up in less than two days for the 24x36x10 size I opted for. The only way to get close to that with stick framing is panelized pre-construction and I did get quotes for that, too. It was 30-50% more.

    Post and beam...now you're talking timber frame and oh, would I really love to be able to do that! Timber frame with SIPs would be nirvana. (ching...ching....)
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 06-26-2022 at 8:06 PM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gibney View Post
    Jim (and anyone else) can you tell me why post and beam is cheaper than stick framing?
    In the next few years I might want to build a 4-car garage workshop, so information like this is important to understand.
    Adding to what Jim said, pole sheds are cheaper because of the foundation. Pole sheds allow use of wood posts below grade to replace the typical perimeter foundation or slab. There will eventually be more issues with the wood posts below grade than a concrete foundation, so pole buildings are a compromise of lifespan vs cost. That's just fine in lots of scenarios like ag barns and utility shops, but it is also why they are not allowed in many places.

    The cost advantage of a pole shed dwindles when you start pouring floors. Also you have to deal with that bottom girt or bang board being in contact with the soil, and it being your support for the bottom of the steel. When pouring a concrete floor inside that board, you use it as a form, but it's then got a whole different dynamic with moisture and bug vulnerability. Pay close attention to details in that area. Water management and pest control will keep a pole shed going a lot longer.

  12. #57
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    Even the potential lifetime issues with the posts is less concern now than in the past. The laminated posts being used for my building have a "lifetime" warranty. Who's lifetime...I don't know, but I'm sure not going to worry about it. But there are also accomodations for a slight uplift in initial cost that totally mitigate the risk of rot, etc...Perma Column which has a very strong concrete addition to the bottom of the laminated post and makes for zero ground contact and poured piers with heavy steel mounting brackets for structures that need to carry more weight are common at this point. There are also various types of dips/wraps that are intermediate between bare post and concrete, too.

    On the grade board, they are PT for ground contact and it's now common to tape/coat the bottom. That, combined with stone that drains really helps prolong life. But yes, proper grading, as with any kind of building is absolutely essential. When you do see rot on grade boards, it's most likely going to be because of inattention to ground water and/or other water leaks from above.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #58
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    Mar 2014
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    Jim, Steve, thanks for the primer on this.
    Jim, feel free to have a build thread going if you don't already!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gibney View Post
    Jim, feel free to have a build thread going if you don't already!
    I do have a thread...it's just going to be quiet for awhile because of scheduling. The actual build is currently pegged for mid-September with "drilling" tentatively on 8 September and then the approximate two days of build for the 12th. I'll have the electrician in as immediately as possible as well as the concrete folks to do their prep. I'll be putting down the insulation for the floor and then the concrete folks will be back to "do the deed" which I'm pleasantly surprised will include coating on the floor which saves me time and money. The thread is quiet at present simply because nothing is happening for now.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post

    On the grade board, they are PT for ground contact and it's now common to tape/coat the bottom. That, combined with stone that drains really helps prolong life. But yes, proper grading, as with any kind of building is absolutely essential. When you do see rot on grade boards, it's most likely going to be because of inattention to ground water and/or other water leaks from above.
    Very true, 9/10 that we replace aren't even pressure treated. People will skimp on the dumbest things.

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