Pigmented Lacquer vs. Paint (specifically BM Advance)

[Tom Bain]

I'm going to be refinishing a fair number of interior doors in my house (FYI - they are currently stained). I plan to take them off the hinges and spray finish with my Fuji HVLP set-up. I'm trying to decide between using Benjamin Moore Advance paint or a pigmented lacquer (Target EM6500). I don't plan to strip the doors completely, just sand and clean the surface to aid in adhesion and apply an appropriate primer. Any thoughts on the pros, cons, compatibility?

[John TenEyck]

BM Advance is nice stuff but takes far too long to dry and even longer to cure for me to consider it (again) for that application. I did a couple of doors with it in my house. It took at least a week before I could hang them, and I had to be really careful for several more weeks not to damage them while it cured. Both have gotten a couple of chips/scratches in the subsequent two years.

I'd go with the TC EM-6500 or Lenmar Duralaq WB, or even SW's ProClassic which is paint but still gives a hard, durable finish. All of them dry in less than an hour, can be recoated in 2 or 3 hours, and cure really well in a week.

John

[Tom M King]

Rotisseries are great to have for spraying doors. I made a bunch of ends, and just use whatever boards I have around to tie them together. All spraying on horizontal surface, and you can flip to do both sides. Pivot is just a not tight screw. All prep is done with the door on the rotisserie.

[Jim Becker]

Keep in mind that Target EM6500 is an acrylic product that just happens to have some of the favorite features of solvent based lacquer, namly "burn in". It's not lacquer in the traditional sense for sure. With the Cross Linker, it can be very durable and sprays wonderfully. Advance is an emulsified alkyd paint product. It's very durable once fully cured, but the initial drying time is relatively long compared to EM6500 which can impact recoating timing. I've sprayed both. Personally, I prefer the Target products, but wouldn't hesitate to use Advance if that was the right product for the job for whatever reason.

[Tom Bain]

I have sprayed the EM6500 product before. There was a bit of learning curve to get the right wet film thickness, but was happy with the results once I figured it out. Didn’t realize the Advance took so long to cure, so that’s good to know.

[Jim Becker]

The Advance takes longer to dry/cure because it's an emulsified alkyd paint..."oil based" generically speaking with a water carrier. Target's EM2000 takes that same approach and also has a slightly longer dry time than their other products for similar reasons. But Advance, once it's actually cured is a very durable product. It just requires some patience. Waterborne finishes also take some time to get to "full cure", so any new work should be treated gently for a few weeks regardless of what finishing product was used.

[Dennis Jarchow]

I have sprayed the EM6500 product before. There was a bit of learning curve to get the right wet film thickness, but was happy with the results once I figured it out.

Tom, I need to spray some EM6500 soon. Any tips? Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

Dennis, it's viscous due to the pigments, so you'll need a larger N/N than with the clear EM6000 and a pressure assisted setup such as the 3M PPS cup system really is helpful. Not just with this product but with many heavier waterborne products. From there, it's pretty much gun adjustment and shooting tests until you have it dialed in. You can thin slightly with water or extender.

[Tom Bain]

Tom, I need to spray some EM6500 soon. Any tips? Thanks!

Dennis — Not sure what your setup is, but I use a Fuji 4-stage HVLP with the PPS system. I finally settled on a 1.5mm tip and thinned the product about 10% with water. Since it is pigmented I initially tried to spray it like paint (very wet) and that is a mistake. It needs to go on much thinner than that, and requires more coats to get full coverage. I very lightly sanded with 400 grit between coats. Definitely recommend test pieces to get everything dialed in.

[Jim Becker]

I will add that even though more coats are required as Tom mentions, since the recoat time is so short, it really doesn't prolong the project.

[Tom Bain]

I will add that even though more coats are required as Tom mentions, since the recoat time is so short, it really doesn't prolong the project.

Yep, I think I got all 4 coats on in one day.

[John TenEyck]

Adding a PPS cup to a turbine gun will not change its performance. The pressure going to the cup is regulated by the gun itself; it makes no difference whose cup is mounted to it. There are still benefits to putting a PPS cup on a turbine gun, though, better seals, easy cleanup, and being able to see how much finish is still in the cup being some.

I think to spray really high viscosity products well w/o thinning you need an airless or air assisted airless sprayer. With my pressure assisted HMLP gun I get better results by thinning and spraying an extra coat, if needed. Often, it's not.

John

[Dennis Jarchow]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a Fuji Minimite 4 stage. I will try test spraying the EM6500 next weekend. Regarding spraying these thicker coatings. There is a lot of buzz lately about industrial/professional coatings including brands like Renner, Milesi, Envirolak, CIC and others. Eric Reason's Youtube channel is one place to see discussion on these brands. All of them are far thicker than the EM6500, and yet Eric and the manufacturers say they can be sprayed with a turbine with some thinning. Given most of them only come in gallons or larger, plus adding in shipping, I am hesitant to order some to try. At least with the Target finishes I can order quarts, and with the frequent sales the shipping is pretty much free.

I do have a Graco 390 pump I could try as I know that will spray the thicker coatings, but it has always been used for paint and despite assurances here that after a good cleaning I will be fine, I am nervous about bit of paint ending up in a clear finish.

[John Kananis]

Dennis, interesting that you brought up Renner. I spoke with a distributer about their product (the 765 line) and I'm just waiting for the right job to order some and try it out. I also have a 4 stage machine (not the fuji). They told me to spray straight product with either a 1.5 tip for some adjustability (which isn't made for my gun) or a 1.3 tip fully opened and full air works fine (for a 1k coat). Once catalyzed (for a 2k coat), use a 1.8 tip and don't thin.

[Tom M King]

Dennis, Change the filter in the gun with the 390, and it will be fine. Use the finer of the two filters that fit it for almost anything but paint. I'm not sure about the stock gun, but any airless guns I've dealt with can be taken apart to get the filter out without tools.