Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Spraying water based dye

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    882

    Spraying water based dye

    I have always wiped or brushed water based dye on my projects (I am pretty old school). I have a HVLP spray gun in my arsenal that would like to use to apply water based dye.

    My question is what is the preferred way to apply the dye using a HVLP?
    Last edited by Robert LaPlaca; 06-09-2022 at 8:41 AM. Reason: Changed wording to preferred

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    It's "merely" a matter of gun setup and adjustment. It's a very thin material so the smallest N/N combined with carefully dialing in the fluid and air settings so you can more or less "mist" on the dye to get to where you want to be is what you need to do. Experiment and test A LOT before you commit and that's both on cardboard at first and then scrap wood of the same species as your project.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    YMMV with dye.

    You may find (as do i) that hvlp is better with alcohol diluted dye, and waterbased dye is easier applied by hand.

    If you spray, you really don't want drips to require you to go back and wipe. Spraying a dye in ethanol is nice because it flashes off and you end up depositing the dye very close to the surface, almost dry. This allows you to build up color better than by wiping. It's especially true on end/edge grain transition situations like a bowl. In this case, it's nearly impossible to wipe on a bright color with uniform results that aren't undesirably dark.

    The easiest dye for me to spray is Transtint.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    882
    Jim and Prashun, one of the reasons I ask, is I have seen two distinctive ‘camps’ of application. One is spray it really dry in multiple light coats, the other is apply a really wet coat and use a cloth to remove excess, not so sure the latter sounds so appealing.

    I have never used either Transfast, Transtint or Lockwood dyes dissolved is alcohol, I think Lockwood has a different product for alcohol IIRC, I guess this is a scenario where the speed of drying fast actually helps the process.

  5. #5
    I keep a rag nearby "just in case" I get a bit heavy when spraying dyes. Like to spray transtint suspended in alcohol/lacquer thinner (spray formula), as it does flash off fast. While alcohol/water mix is supposed to be good for spray on and wipe back, I find it can get blotchy, though same can happen with Alc/lac thinner method, so I guess I'd say, I'm more in the dry spray camp, as it is safer.

    Last color match I did with dyes was for existing maple cabinets in a kitchen that I think were originally done with OB Poly = ambered wood and topcoat. Ended up with a super-thin mix, and in that instance, a damp (not dripping) coat gave the best results using H2O and Alcohol blend. Spray mix (alc/lac thin) was prone to spotting/blotching. Wiping mix, if put on just a bit too heavy, would pool, then dry spotty with odd orange highlites as well, just not near as severe, so practice is essential.

    Favorite use for dyes: as a base layer in developing a super-rich color, like espresso. In these instances, if a bit of blotching or striping happens, the oil based stain for step 2 blends it out. Dye by itself can be ideal (curly maple), or surprisingly difficult to make look natural.

    Main point is, test, develop your own treatments for colors/species, and save your finishing schedules for future use.

    jeff

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,647
    I spray dye whenever I'm worried about blotching. The key to avoid blotching is to spray no more than the wood can accept because if it pools it will run to the thirsty areas and, bingo, blotching happens. But I'm not in the misting camp either. Mist that is dry by the time it hits the surface doesn't penetrate into the wood and does a poor job of bringing out the grain. Of course, if your objective is to mask the grain then misting on several dry coats is a very good way to accomplish it, without blotching, and is a useful technique to have in your arsenal. But to add color and highlight the grain I find the best approach is to spray on only one coat, one that is wet enough to just wet the wood but not so heavy that it pools which will lead to blotching. It's not as hard as it sounds. Get the concentration correct, then adjust the gun settings and your pace to give a barely wet coat when overlapping your passes by 50%.

    John

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    Just to address my use of the word "mist" in my original reply, I didn't mean something so thin that there would be risk of it hitting the wood dry. That's poor wording on my part and I apologize. What I meant was that it has to go on such that it's not going to run...damp, but not a coating like varnish or paint, and thin enough that there is some control to refine the color a little darker/richer if needed.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    882
    John, my purpose for using water based dye’s is to enhance whatever species I am using, so it sounds like multiple dry coats doesn’t sound like a solution for me. It’s sounding like a single wet coat, that isn’t too wet or dry is the answer. I have to confess I am a real spraying noob, I am a bit intimated, I guess I have lots of card board in my future.

    John, do you use straight water base dye when you spray or other solvents to get the job done?
    Last edited by Robert LaPlaca; 06-09-2022 at 4:48 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,647
    Jim, I wasn't taking issue with your post just stating my view.

    Robert, when I've compared Transtint with water vs. DNA as the solvent, the ones I make with water seem to highlight the grain better. I think it's because water dries more slowly than DNA which allows the dye to penetrate deeper into the wood, but that is just speculation on my part. But comparison samples clearly showed water gave a more vibrant effect. So I almost always use water with Transtint when I spray. That makes it doubly important to get the variables of gun and human dialed in by it's really not that hard. Spraying on cardboard will let you get the gun dialed in for a good spray pattern, but it's of little value for getting the pace right. You can only do that on your actual workpiece, or scrap from it.

    If you have some scrap do a test run with the workpiece propped up vertically. That orientation is the hardest, i.e. easiest for runs to occur, so if you can spray a test piece so that it's wet but w/o runs you have it right. Then just repeat that pace on your actual work, both horizontal and vertical orientation. If you miss a spot, don't despair, just feather some in. Another approach I often use on large panels is to spray at half the flow I normally would and to run one coat across the grain and then immediately shoot another coat going with the grain. With water it will stay wet long enough for the second pass to blend into the first as one, while helping to eliminate bare spots and runs. You'll figure it out. It's truly not that hard.

    John

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    No issue, John...I was just clarifying that I meant a light, careful application since dye is pretty thin stuff.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    882
    I would like to thank everyone for their help and suggestions..

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •