Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35

Thread: Battery Platforms (22/36/40V etc.)

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Colombo View Post
    Question - isn’t run time more based on the AH rating of the batteries vs voltage ?
    The 60V DeWalt FlexVolt batteries are actually three 20V batteries in one package. When used as 60V batteries, the individual batteries are in series. When used as 20V batteries, the individual batteries are in parallel. So if the individual batteries are (for example) 3Ahr batteries, you have a 9Ahr battery when used as a 20V battery.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    858
    Pretty well all power-tool batteries use cylindrical Li-Ion cells packaged into a battery. The run-time of a tool is based on the total energy of the battery divided by the power used. More cells in the battery will provide more energy and a longer run time. Adding cells in parallel or series provides more Ah or Voltage respectively but the effect on run-time is roughly the same.

    For higher power applications higher voltage is more efficient and generates less heat hence the trend to 60+V batteries for heavier duty applications.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Redmond, OR
    Posts
    594
    I mostly use corded tools in my shop. For around the house and property I have a good selection of 18v Dewalt tools for most chores. After market 18v Li Ion and NiMH batteries (with the appropriate charger) keep them running better than when they were new. I have added a few Dewalt 20v tools along the way. There might be better cordless tools with better features but the old Dewalt tools always get the job done for me. I still have and use the 18v Dewalt XRP drill that my parents gave me 30 years ago. It is hard to argue with that kind of reliability.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    2,255
    I have a number of Makita LXT tools. The batteries come in different sizes. As was mentioned, for some tools that pull a lot of juice I want the larger batteries (circ saw comes to mind). But for other tools, I more often than not put the smaller battery on it (impact drivers and drills for driving screws).

    This may be independent of voltage as was mentioned. All of these are 18V but the 2mA batteries are much much smaller/lighter than the larger ones.

    There is still a place for corded tools in my shop, although cordless have come a long ways and is now used more than corded.

    So for me, SMALLER is better (I even have a small screwdriver type cordless at work which works great!)

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    139
    As numerously stated it is certainly true that application matters very much, and the lighter the tool the easier it is to work with over extended periods of time. Havent had any issues with lack of power of 18/20V tools much either.

    The Systems that allow higher voltage Batteries to use on low Voltage tools for extended power/run time is a good point, hopefully more manufacturers will use the same Interface between their batteries and allow for that. It would certainly make it easier for people first time buying into a Platform not being locked into just 1 series of Tools of that Manufacturer.

    As for the 10.8/12V tools would agree they deserve a mention, having used both Milwaukee aswell as Bosch Drill/Drivers while some think the fatter grip due to the battery is uncomfortable, personally never had that issue. Really good tools for overhead or cramped work in tight spaces.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    4,563
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Funk View Post
    Pretty well all power-tool batteries use cylindrical Li-Ion cells packaged into a battery. The run-time of a tool is based on the total energy of the battery divided by the power used. More cells in the battery will provide more energy and a longer run time. Adding cells in parallel or series provides more Ah or Voltage respectively but the effect on run-time is roughly the same.

    For higher power applications higher voltage is more efficient and generates less heat hence the trend to 60+V batteries for heavier duty applications.
    Yes, this. All else being equal, higher voltage means higher torque, while more weight means more runtime (higher Amp-hour rating).
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,688
    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp Jaindl View Post
    As for the 10.8/12V tools would agree they deserve a mention, having used both Milwaukee aswell as Bosch Drill/Drivers while some think the fatter grip due to the battery is uncomfortable, personally never had that issue. Really good tools for overhead or cramped work in tight spaces.
    I resemble that remark...my two CSX drill/drivers are the most used portable power tools I own for sure and I don't pull out the heavier D/D(s) unless the job truly requires them. The weight difference is substantial and noticable.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Spartanburg South Carolina
    Posts
    386
    My employees hated the Ridgid cordless tools and wanted Milwaukee cordless tools. That left me with a huge assortment of chargers and tools that as they burn up or fail I just grab another. The only thing I need is a new battery from time to time and I buy knock off replacements. All that said I would go with the Milwaukee cordless if quality is the driver. My outdoor tools I settled on Ryobi 40 volt and have not been disappointed. I will move completely away from gas power not because I am green it is just quieter and more convenient. Just waiting on two more yard tools to die. As a hobbyist and mostly hand tool woodworker I may check out the Ryobi line when the need arises. Before someone points this out I am aware that the Ridgid line was made by Ryobi.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    11,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I resemble that remark...my two CSX drill/drivers are the most used portable power tools I own for sure and I don't pull out the heavier D/D(s) unless the job truly requires them. The weight difference is substantial and noticable.
    Absolutely agree Jim, anything larger and I get out a real drill that plugs in……Regards, Rod

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Mid West and North East USA
    Posts
    2,833
    Blog Entries
    2
    I still limp along with 9.6 volts. An upgrade may be in my future. It is nice to have 120 volts close by, at the end of a cord. I also have a 4700 watt inverter and an extra automobile battery in the car. They make 132+ volts if the car is running. Tools really hum at 132 volts. The tools seem to love it, I hope they last.
    Last edited by Maurice Mcmurry; 06-01-2022 at 8:00 PM.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  11. #26
    I think the voltage wars are more marketing nonsense than anything else. First, there is no more power in a higher voltage battery. All our lithium ion batteries are made up of lots of little cells around 1.2V each. If we connect them in series, we get higher voltage. In parallel, lower voltage. But the power we can get out of them is not dependent on how they are connected, it is dependent on the number of little cells and their quality. It is the amp hours of the battery that determine how much work they can do, not the voltage. Now there may be an advantage of higher voltage in the motor of the tool, I don't know, but for the battery, it makes no difference.

    I have 18V and 12V Milwaukee, 18 V Skil, 18V Wen, 18V Ryobi, 12V Bosch, and 40 V Ryobi tools/batteries/chargers. So definitely my experience is with the lower voltage tools but my argument above is not based upon experience, just the science of battery construction. I have a 40V and a 18V Ryobi chain saw. I bought the former and was given the latter. The 18V came with a 6 amp hour battery and worked fine to take down and cut up a cedar tree about a foot in diameter. It doesn't leak bar oil like the 40V so I like it a little better. I notice a run time difference between amp hours but not a difference from voltage.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    858
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    I think the voltage wars are more marketing nonsense than anything else. First, there is no more power in a higher voltage battery. All our lithium ion batteries are made up of lots of little cells around 1.2V each. If we connect them in series, we get higher voltage. In parallel, lower voltage. But the power we can get out of them is not dependent on how they are connected, it is dependent on the number of little cells and their quality.
    The energy in the pack is the same regardless of how it's connected but the power available to a motor definitely depends on the voltage levels. The battery needs to be connected to the motor with wires and connectors. For the same size wires and connectors you have lower losses with high voltage/low current. It's not practical to build higher power devices with low voltage batteries, hence the reason EVs use battery packs of 300+V.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Funk View Post
    The energy in the pack is the same regardless of how it's connected but the power available to a motor definitely depends on the voltage levels. The battery needs to be connected to the motor with wires and connectors. For the same size wires and connectors you have lower losses with high voltage/low current. It's not practical to build higher power devices with low voltage batteries, hence the reason EVs use battery packs of 300+V.
    Greg is correct. It's the same thing with motors in our shops. Technically, there's no difference in horsepower in running a motor on 120 volts or 240 volts. But you need bigger wires if it's run on 120 volts because the current is double. Battery tools are the same. You have wires and connectors that have resistance. Higher voltage and lower current reduces the losses in those elements and gives you more power to the tool.

    [The power lost in the resistance is P=(I^2)*R. The power lost goes up with the square of current. Reducing the current by increasing the voltage makes a big difference in the losses in the wire resistance and the connector resistance.]

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 06-02-2022 at 2:47 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  14. #29
    I find my 12V Bosch and Milwaukee drills to be handy and suitable for most of what I want to do. Occasionally I need a 18V. But I found saws to be pretty useless until lithium ion batteries came out and would think the same logic would probably apply - 12V not so good. But I have a Bosch 12V jigsaw on my wish list. I "want" it for light duty like coping trim and I think it would work for that.

    I am also very aware that the same kW at higher voltage means less amps. Less amps can mean smaller conductors and connectors but I don't think it does in cordless power tools. We are not talking about high kW devices and the practicality of handling tiny wires and connectors is probably a factor too. The tool motors are not very efficient and that inefficiency swamps any theoretical effect of the I squared R losses. I am not saying that there is not a small advantage for higher voltage I am just saying I don't think it is a very substantial factor. But the importance certainly increases as we get more powerful cordless tools incorporating larger battery packs and higher kW motors. For something like a cordless table saw I think it's a substantial factor and a higher voltage battery is at least a very good idea. For a cordless drill, I don't think voltage is much of a factor. My cordless Milwaukee hammer drill and framing nailer seem to work just fine on their 18V batteries.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Southwest WI
    Posts
    296
    I have quite a few milwaukee m18 tools. I like most of them better then the dewalt flexvolt and the Marita 36volt. The high voltage batteries have a lower amo hour capacity so I haven't really seen much difference in performance or runtime. If possible I recommend you stick with one battery platform for all your cordless tools.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •