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Thread: Anyone have experience with Sheds Unlimited?

  1. #16
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    Is the Tough Sheds everyone is referring to really Tuff Sheds? It appears they don't panelize anything near as large as what I want to build. I am checking with a local company I found.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    Is the Tough Sheds everyone is referring to really Tuff Sheds? It appears they don't panelize anything near as large as what I want to build. I am checking with a local company I found.
    They can go quite large and will do custom sizes. You have to contact them for details. Community member Glenn Bradley has one (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ght=Tough+Shed)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    They can go quite large and will do custom sizes. You have to contact them for details. Community member Glenn Bradley has one (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ght=Tough+Shed)
    I saw something about buildings being limited to 40 feet. I am planning on 44x60x16. The 16 is to store a large motorhome.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    I saw something about buildings being limited to 40 feet. I am planning on 44x60x16. The 16 is to store a large motorhome.
    For a building of that size and height, Post Frame is your friend...much more cost effective, easier to put up and stronger relative to the height of the open space. Even my smaller building decision was more cost effective with post frame (24x36x10) and about $12K less than a panelized system not including additional concrete costs.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    For a building of that size and height, Post Frame is your friend...much more cost effective, easier to put up and stronger relative to the height of the open space. Even my smaller building decision was more cost effective with post frame (24x36x10) and about $12K less than a panelized system not including additional concrete costs.
    City doesn’t allow post frame construction unless I have five or more acres. I have three acres. The real issue with post frame I think is the vertical steel siding. I have to have siding and roofing that matches my house. Everyone I talked to says post frame is going to cost as much as stick frame with the changes needed to install lap siding.

  6. #21
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    It's not Sheds Unlimited but a client just bought a shed from a local "Amish" source. It has lots of particle board. Siding, Flooring, and Sheeting all made from the cheapest products available.
    Portable Buildings & Sheds | Locations | Columbia, MO
    Last edited by Maurice Mcmurry; 05-19-2022 at 9:58 PM.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    City doesn’t allow post frame construction unless I have five or more acres. I have three acres. The real issue with post frame I think is the vertical steel siding. I have to have siding and roofing that matches my house. Everyone I talked to says post frame is going to cost as much as stick frame with the changes needed to install lap siding.
    That's short sighted on their part and very sad. Also, post frame structures are not limited to metal siding and roofing. They can be finished with whatever materials you want while retaining the key benefits of big, high, open spaces when they are needed without excessive engineering for weight bearing, etc. That's really the crux of what you are facing for what you want...you need height and a big open space. Stick framed walls present challenges for that engineering wise that are uber-simple with post frame.

    But yes, when you go to sheathing and other siding materials, the cost of materials does escalate to where there is more parity in cost. But the post frame, if done correctly, may be stronger and it's certainly more adaptable to design changes, such as moving doors and windows around as well as super insulating.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    That's short sighted on their part and very sad. Also, post frame structures are not limited to metal siding and roofing. They can be finished with whatever materials you want while retaining the key benefits of big, high, open spaces when they are needed without excessive engineering for weight bearing, etc. That's really the crux of what you are facing for what you want...you need height and a big open space. Stick framed walls present challenges for that engineering wise that are uber-simple with post frame.

    But yes, when you go to sheathing and other siding materials, the cost of materials does escalate to where there is more parity in cost. But the post frame, if done correctly, may be stronger and it's certainly more adaptable to design changes, such as moving doors and windows around as well as super insulating.
    I think if I went to the city and proposed pole construction, but with sheathing and siding to match my house I suspect they would approve it. The problem is you're not saving any money by the time you add all the blocking and such to do lap siding on top of sheathing. The lap siding needs to be nailed to studs every 16". You're basically building a stick built wall in between every post. I would need full sheathing on the roof so that I could match the roof on house. A standard pole building has trusses eight to ten feet apart supported by poles. The weight of a full sheathed roof especially if you do asphalt shingles requires trusses two feet on center. There isn't a pole every two feet to support the weight.

    Common roof trusses will span 44 feet with 2x6 or 2x8 walls depending on the height of the sidewalls. I am running into an issue of needing engineering with sidewalls over 12 feet. I had the building engineered by a local engineer for less than $1,000, but the extra materials and such to build to the engineered plans would add $10,000 to the cost easily.

  9. #24
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    The way it's done is that sheathing is applied to the horizontal girts before your siding goes on. It's not necessary to build stud walls between the posts. You can sheath with ply, osb, ZipSystem/Weatherlogic, etc. Lap siding can be nailed to these with no issues if the correct fasteners are used. Similarly, up on the roof it's the same...the sheathing goes on the purlins and then you roof as normal for the shingles. The purlins are typically 2' OC as trusses would be for a stick-built structure. The difference is that you need half the trusses (properly engineered) to support the weight of the roof including both wind and snow load. This is not an unommon scenario for post frame structures, especially for those that are for residential or vacation living, combined or not combined with other purposes. ("Barndominium")

    The issue for hight with stick built isn't the trusses...it's constructing the supporting walls at that height. This is natural for a post frame, but a lot harder for stick-built because of weight bearing challenges...hence, the engineering challenge you mention.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #25
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    My shop is exactly what Jim is proposing. It is pole construction with purlins and osb sheathing on the exterior with lap siding fastened to the sheathing. I have a metal roof, but since our home has slate, there was no matching that. Many homes in our town have metal roofing, so it fits right in. Once the exterior was complete, I attached purlins on the inside and attached the wall material. Finally, cellulose was blown into the space for insulation.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    The way it's done is that sheathing is applied to the horizontal girts before your siding goes on. It's not necessary to build stud walls between the posts. You can sheath with ply, osb, ZipSystem/Weatherlogic, etc. Lap siding can be nailed to these with no issues if the correct fasteners are used. Similarly, up on the roof it's the same...the sheathing goes on the purlins and then you roof as normal for the shingles. The purlins are typically 2' OC as trusses would be for a stick-built structure. The difference is that you need half the trusses (properly engineered) to support the weight of the roof including both wind and snow load. This is not an unommon scenario for post frame structures, especially for those that are for residential or vacation living, combined or not combined with other purposes. ("Barndominium")

    The issue for hight with stick built isn't the trusses...it's constructing the supporting walls at that height. This is natural for a post frame, but a lot harder for stick-built because of weight bearing challenges...hence, the engineering challenge you mention.
    Maybe I'm reading the installation instructions wrong, but LP seems to want Smartside lap siding nailed into studs 16" on center, or they have an alternative fastening system for 24" OC studs.

    The engineering issues were mostly with the 40 foot wide gable end wall. The wall will have a 14' wide door and an 18' wide door. To handle the 90 MPH wind load would require a 5'x5'x5' footing at the end of each garage door with a huge composite column and a very expensive hold down anchor to secure the column to the footing. A minimum of $5,000 for that wall and probably more.

    The pole barn folks all said the sheathing and asphalt shingles are much heavier than a metal roof with no sheathing and the truss spacing would have to be much narrower. I talked to the structural engineer I am working with and he said I should be able to still do sheathing and shingles even with the traditional spacing for trusses. I would just need bigger purlins.

  12. #27
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    Brian, I really think you are being led astray. The trusses are not put on each post, a rim joist is installed around the top and trusses can be anywhere at whatever spacing is required. a Sheathed and shingled roof is not a problem, The truss spacing is usually not because of the weight of the roof, but because the sheathing has a fastening/support requirement.
    EX: my building will have steel, but is rated for 55 lb/sqft snow load and 155 mph wind with trusses at 4 ft centers. Way more weight than the difference between metal and shingled roof. a metal roof weighs around 2 lbs psf and osb with shingles is around 5 psf.
    Siding is not a problem, you simply sheet with plywood/OSB that meets the siding manufactures spec that is installed to the girts and hang on that.

    The hardiplank lap siding install guide lists nailing schedules for applying to 7/16 or more thickness OSB. the OSB is nailed to the 24 in spaced girts that wrap the building horizontally and the OSB does not care whether its supports are vertical or horizontal.

    a 40 ft gable with roof trusses with an 18 foot door is no problem in a post frame structure. post each side and a good size laminated headers

    check out https://www.lesterbuildings.com/
    it's who my building that should be going up in a week or so is from, and is local to you in MN. They can do everything that you are wanting. I chose them because a neighbor has one and I was very impressed over some other, more well known makers.
    Last edited by Adam Herman; 05-20-2022 at 4:33 PM.

  13. #28
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    Lester Buildings was one company who told me the weight of sheathing and asphalt shingles would require extra trusses. They also told me that it would be problematic to place trusses between the poles. Personally, I have never seen a pole building where the trusses were not on top of the poles.

    Yes, I know I would not need the extra support with post frame. That engineering was based on a stick built structure.

  14. #29
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    Every post frame I've seen has had trusses both over the poles and intermediate on the double top headers that run the length of the building sides. Those are typically 2x10 or 2x12 and of the highest quality SYP. Two of those over an 8-10' span can hold a LOT of truss weight for each bay. My trusses will be 4' on center as that's what's required and appropriate for this area for loads. The posts are 8' OC. Trusses certainly can be spaced at 2' on center if that's required for how a building is engineered, including factors such as heavy sheathing and roof materials. But 4' on center with 2x4 purlins at 2' on center is pretty darn robust including being very stiff with sheathing on top. Putting the purlins perpendicular to the truss surface gives an even stronger structure for what is only a 4' span. Those big doors are also a no-brainer for post frame because those openings are not weight bearing like they are with a stick built structure. Sometimes steel does get used for really long spans, however, but that's usually on the side, not the gable end.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Every post frame I've seen has had trusses both over the poles and intermediate on the double top headers that run the length of the building sides. Those are typically 2x10 or 2x12 and of the highest quality SYP. Two of those over an 8-10' span can hold a LOT of truss weight for each bay. My trusses will be 4' on center as that's what's required and appropriate for this area for loads. The posts are 8' OC. Trusses certainly can be spaced at 2' on center if that's required for how a building is engineered, including factors such as heavy sheathing and roof materials. But 4' on center with 2x4 purlins at 2' on center is pretty darn robust including being very stiff with sheathing on top. Putting the purlins perpendicular to the truss surface gives an even stronger structure for what is only a 4' span. Those big doors are also a no-brainer for post frame because those openings are not weight bearing like they are with a stick built structure. Sometimes steel does get used for really long spans, however, but that's usually on the side, not the gable end.
    I'm curious why four foot truss spacing? Menards has a pole building designer that offers 9, 8, 6, 5, and 4 feet truss spacing options. All options except the four foot spacing have a pole under every truss. They have a 3D visualizer that has an option to show the building with no skin on it so you can see the lumber.

    The structural engineer I worked with to engineer my stick built structure said he could engineer a pole building for me that works with sheathing and shingles on the roof.

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