Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41

Thread: Help Me Pick a Plow Plane or Is It a Plough Plane

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    958

    Help Me Pick a Plow Plane or Is It a Plough Plane

    Typical use will be on 3/4 to 7/8" stock planing on edge for a a 1/4" groove about 3/8" deep for frame and panel construction. I'll also be using it for grooving a post, usually about 1.5" x 1.5" is typical, again to accept a panel for frame and panel construction. It needs to go both directions, as grain direction may vary on a single piece of stock. Bonus use would be a tongue bit, say 1/4", to make sure the panels fit the aforementioned groove would save some fitting time. I may have a use for it for inlay of boxes and beading down the road, but right now, the immediate use is frame and panel construction.

    I used to use a 1/4" router bit in a table with a fence, but with frame and panel construction, I have to drop the wood onto a spinning router bit, which while not inherently dangerous, nevertheless always gives me the heebie jeebies.

    I guess the choice is between a Veritas Plow Plane (do I need both LH and RH to go both directions for grain direction?) or a combination plane, like a Veritas 48 (again, do I need to switch fence settings on the 48 to accomplish this?). Money is not a factor. Quality tool, ease of use are the main factors here.

    Having not owned any such plane, any help would be nice. I did read some old threads here on this, as well as looking at some Cossman, Wood Wright, and Sellers videos, but none of the addressed my specific issue.

    Thanks in advance for all who respond.
    Regards,

    Tom

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,109
    Hmmm..
    2 hour Saturday, No.45.JPG
    Hmmm..
    2 hour Saturday, reset for grooves.JPG
    The ORIGINAL 7 planes in one..
    The Groovy Stuff, Drawer front.JPG
    Makes a batch of noodles, too...
    The Groovy Stuff, noodle maker.JPG

    YMMV...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Fairbanks AK
    Posts
    1,566
    For the relatively small stock you are describing you could get by with one of the Veritas small plow planes, and make an accessory spacer for the fence so you can use it both right and left handed.


    Beside the 1/4 grooving blade, there is a 1/4 inch tongue cutter for the same plane, outside width of the 1/4 tongue cutting blade...BRB I will measure mine... is 13/16ths of one inch.

    I will see if I can find a pic of the spacer I made to use my RH small plow in grain that wants lefthanded attention.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Fairbanks AK
    Posts
    1,566
    The wooden spacer I made to use my RH small plane in the LH configuration is pictured in this thread. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....bination-plane

    Overall I find moving filister planes to be fussy, but Veritas the least fussy among the few types I have tried.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,450
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McCurnin View Post
    Typical use will be on 3/4 to 7/8" stock planing on edge for a a 1/4" groove about 3/8" deep for frame and panel construction. I'll also be using it for grooving a post, usually about 1.5" x 1.5" is typical, again to accept a panel for frame and panel construction. It needs to go both directions, as grain direction may vary on a single piece of stock. Bonus use would be a tongue bit, say 1/4", to make sure the panels fit the aforementioned groove would save some fitting time. I may have a use for it for inlay of boxes and beading down the road, but right now, the immediate use is frame and panel construction.

    I used to use a 1/4" router bit in a table with a fence, but with frame and panel construction, I have to drop the wood onto a spinning router bit, which while not inherently dangerous, nevertheless always gives me the heebie jeebies.

    I guess the choice is between a Veritas Plow Plane (do I need both LH and RH to go both directions for grain direction?) or a combination plane, like a Veritas 48 (again, do I need to switch fence settings on the 48 to accomplish this?). Money is not a factor. Quality tool, ease of use are the main factors here.

    Having not owned any such plane, any help would be nice. I did read some old threads here on this, as well as looking at some Cossman, Wood Wright, and Sellers videos, but none of the addressed my specific issue.

    Thanks in advance for all who respond.
    Hi Thomas

    I think that you meant to choose between the Veritas Small Plow with T&G accessory ...




    Veritas Combination plane ....



    and LN #49, which has the advantage of being set up permanently ...



    ... but it lacks the flexibility and wide range of the Veritas planes.



    For all, you still need a moving fillister for cross-grain planing ...




    You only need one plane. You do not need left- and right handed planes. If you experience interlocked grain, add a micro 15 degree back bevel to the blade for a 60 degree high cutting angle.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 05-14-2022 at 12:15 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    New England area
    Posts
    588
    If you're running grooves on figured stock with grain emerging and diving all over the place, I strongly suggest using a cutting gauge to define what will be the arris of the grooves, first. One bit of blown out grain and you've spoiled a stile or rail, and your day. If you're working totally by hand, you've also lost the time spend preparing that particular piece of stock and also the time spent composing the stiles and rails as to color and grain - usually a very significant investment of time in comparison to other tasks.

    The chance that you'll always be able to run a groove with the grain, and not encounter reversing grain, is beyond remote. That said, cabinet door stiles and rails tend to look better, to my eye at least, when the grain is relatively straight and not extremely figured. However, the grain can be largely straight but run right off at the edge of what will be your groove. And when it blows out, it take a long splinter of wood with it -- not really recoverable unless it comes off really cleanly and you can glue it back on.

    Sharpen up, define the groove with a cutting gauge, take very thin shavings to start. Once you're below surface, you might be able to give it a little more iron. The first passes are obviously the most critical.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 05-14-2022 at 5:08 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,109
    Hmmm..
    Thursday Shoptime, fence corrected.JPG
    hmmm..
    Thursday Shoptime 2, sanded.JPG
    One cut with the grain (Ash) and the other against it...
    Thursday Shoptime 2, test.JPG
    Dresses things up a bit.

    A Stanley No. 45, with the basic set of 24 cutters runs about $100-$200....includes 2 sizes of tongue cutters (3/16" and 1/4") and a sash cutter, plus straight cutters and bead cutters.

    Sargent also made a version....not sure IF Millers Falls did....

    Does not NEED fancy "adapters", or any special fences...once one LEARNS how to use one of these planes...they become very easy to use..
    The Groovy Stuff, 2 of them.JPG
    Have and USE 2 such planes....
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    East Cost
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Have and USE 2 such planes....
    Sou your recommendation would be to own 2 combination planes? Coincidentally I was thinking about finding a second combo plane, but not being a huge fan of devices combining thousands of features, Stanley #50 is probably the most complex tool I'd consider.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,109
    I can get by using just the one....second one is because it's spurs/knickers are in place...first one doesn't have a way to use them anymore....hole for the bolt was stripped out.

    Haven't found these planes to be all that "complex"....and are actually easy to set up....Must be something good about the #45...since Veritas saw fit to make a "knock-off copy" of them....I'll stick with the Original..
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,312
    Blog Entries
    1
    Must be something good about the #45...since Veritas saw fit to make a "knock-off copy" of them....I'll stick with the Original..
    Yeah, right and today's F-150 is a "knock-off copy" of Henry Ford's Flat Bed Model-T.

    The Veritas planes are a vast improvement to a concept from well over a century ago.

    The last true "knock-off copy" of the Stanley #45 to cross my path was about 30 years ago in a Woodcraft store. It was made by Clifton and had a price tag of around $600.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Dover View Post
    Sou your recommendation would be to own 2 combination planes? Coincidentally I was thinking about finding a second combo plane, but not being a huge fan of devices combining thousands of features, Stanley #50 is probably the most complex tool I'd consider.
    For many projects my #50 is preferred over the #45. It is especially preferred when cutting slots for the bottoms of drawers and boxes.

    I like my Stanley #45s, and yes on occasion two or three of them are set up for different tasks on a single project.

    Here is a post on making a double decker box using both a #50 and a #45 > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?286634 < The #45 was used to cut stopped slots.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,957
    I don't own a 45, but do own a couple of 55's. They're no harder to use for grooving than a 45.

    My favorite plane for grooving is a grooving molding plane with the metal skate. I just bought one with a movable fence out of the Classified's here a couple of weeks ago, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. My others are all dedicated to one size groove. The only trouble with them is that the spacing from the edge is fixed. Any combination plane does not quite work as good since the cutter is mostly just hanging out in the air.

    One of my grooving planes has a slightly narrowed iron to work with 1/4" plywood drawer bottoms. It's often quicker to grab that one to run drawer bottom grooves with than changing a router bit, and setting a router, or router table. A lot more fun, and quieter too.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,450
    If we wish to debate which the best plough, I could through into the ring one I built myself, from scratch ...







    ... but I still prefer using the Veritas Small Plow for most grooves.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,109
    So...how well does it do tongues for T&G joints like the OP was asking about?
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,450
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    So...how well does it do tongues for T&G joints like the OP was asking about?
    Very slowly, Steven

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    93
    Thanks Derek! I could have used that back bevel idea a few days ago plowing a groove into Padauk against the grain. I did not think of that, nor knifing the walls, until it was far too late. Padauk sure does splinter!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •