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Thread: Help Me Pick a Plow Plane or Is It a Plough Plane

  1. #1
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    Help Me Pick a Plow Plane or Is It a Plough Plane

    Typical use will be on 3/4 to 7/8" stock planing on edge for a a 1/4" groove about 3/8" deep for frame and panel construction. I'll also be using it for grooving a post, usually about 1.5" x 1.5" is typical, again to accept a panel for frame and panel construction. It needs to go both directions, as grain direction may vary on a single piece of stock. Bonus use would be a tongue bit, say 1/4", to make sure the panels fit the aforementioned groove would save some fitting time. I may have a use for it for inlay of boxes and beading down the road, but right now, the immediate use is frame and panel construction.

    I used to use a 1/4" router bit in a table with a fence, but with frame and panel construction, I have to drop the wood onto a spinning router bit, which while not inherently dangerous, nevertheless always gives me the heebie jeebies.

    I guess the choice is between a Veritas Plow Plane (do I need both LH and RH to go both directions for grain direction?) or a combination plane, like a Veritas 48 (again, do I need to switch fence settings on the 48 to accomplish this?). Money is not a factor. Quality tool, ease of use are the main factors here.

    Having not owned any such plane, any help would be nice. I did read some old threads here on this, as well as looking at some Cossman, Wood Wright, and Sellers videos, but none of the addressed my specific issue.

    Thanks in advance for all who respond.
    Regards,

    Tom

  2. #2
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    Hmmm..
    2 hour Saturday, No.45.JPG
    Hmmm..
    2 hour Saturday, reset for grooves.JPG
    The ORIGINAL 7 planes in one..
    The Groovy Stuff, Drawer front.JPG
    Makes a batch of noodles, too...
    The Groovy Stuff, noodle maker.JPG

    YMMV...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  3. #3
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    For the relatively small stock you are describing you could get by with one of the Veritas small plow planes, and make an accessory spacer for the fence so you can use it both right and left handed.


    Beside the 1/4 grooving blade, there is a 1/4 inch tongue cutter for the same plane, outside width of the 1/4 tongue cutting blade...BRB I will measure mine... is 13/16ths of one inch.

    I will see if I can find a pic of the spacer I made to use my RH small plow in grain that wants lefthanded attention.

  4. #4
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    The wooden spacer I made to use my RH small plane in the LH configuration is pictured in this thread. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....bination-plane

    Overall I find moving filister planes to be fussy, but Veritas the least fussy among the few types I have tried.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McCurnin View Post
    Typical use will be on 3/4 to 7/8" stock planing on edge for a a 1/4" groove about 3/8" deep for frame and panel construction. I'll also be using it for grooving a post, usually about 1.5" x 1.5" is typical, again to accept a panel for frame and panel construction. It needs to go both directions, as grain direction may vary on a single piece of stock. Bonus use would be a tongue bit, say 1/4", to make sure the panels fit the aforementioned groove would save some fitting time. I may have a use for it for inlay of boxes and beading down the road, but right now, the immediate use is frame and panel construction.

    I used to use a 1/4" router bit in a table with a fence, but with frame and panel construction, I have to drop the wood onto a spinning router bit, which while not inherently dangerous, nevertheless always gives me the heebie jeebies.

    I guess the choice is between a Veritas Plow Plane (do I need both LH and RH to go both directions for grain direction?) or a combination plane, like a Veritas 48 (again, do I need to switch fence settings on the 48 to accomplish this?). Money is not a factor. Quality tool, ease of use are the main factors here.

    Having not owned any such plane, any help would be nice. I did read some old threads here on this, as well as looking at some Cossman, Wood Wright, and Sellers videos, but none of the addressed my specific issue.

    Thanks in advance for all who respond.
    Hi Thomas

    I think that you meant to choose between the Veritas Small Plow with T&G accessory ...




    Veritas Combination plane ....



    and LN #49, which has the advantage of being set up permanently ...



    ... but it lacks the flexibility and wide range of the Veritas planes.



    For all, you still need a moving fillister for cross-grain planing ...




    You only need one plane. You do not need left- and right handed planes. If you experience interlocked grain, add a micro 15 degree back bevel to the blade for a 60 degree high cutting angle.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 05-14-2022 at 12:15 AM.

  6. #6
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    If you're running grooves on figured stock with grain emerging and diving all over the place, I strongly suggest using a cutting gauge to define what will be the arris of the grooves, first. One bit of blown out grain and you've spoiled a stile or rail, and your day. If you're working totally by hand, you've also lost the time spend preparing that particular piece of stock and also the time spent composing the stiles and rails as to color and grain - usually a very significant investment of time in comparison to other tasks.

    The chance that you'll always be able to run a groove with the grain, and not encounter reversing grain, is beyond remote. That said, cabinet door stiles and rails tend to look better, to my eye at least, when the grain is relatively straight and not extremely figured. However, the grain can be largely straight but run right off at the edge of what will be your groove. And when it blows out, it take a long splinter of wood with it -- not really recoverable unless it comes off really cleanly and you can glue it back on.

    Sharpen up, define the groove with a cutting gauge, take very thin shavings to start. Once you're below surface, you might be able to give it a little more iron. The first passes are obviously the most critical.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 05-14-2022 at 5:08 AM.

  7. #7
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    Hmmm..
    Thursday Shoptime, fence corrected.JPG
    hmmm..
    Thursday Shoptime 2, sanded.JPG
    One cut with the grain (Ash) and the other against it...
    Thursday Shoptime 2, test.JPG
    Dresses things up a bit.

    A Stanley No. 45, with the basic set of 24 cutters runs about $100-$200....includes 2 sizes of tongue cutters (3/16" and 1/4") and a sash cutter, plus straight cutters and bead cutters.

    Sargent also made a version....not sure IF Millers Falls did....

    Does not NEED fancy "adapters", or any special fences...once one LEARNS how to use one of these planes...they become very easy to use..
    The Groovy Stuff, 2 of them.JPG
    Have and USE 2 such planes....
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  8. #8
    Thanks Derek! I could have used that back bevel idea a few days ago plowing a groove into Padauk against the grain. I did not think of that, nor knifing the walls, until it was far too late. Padauk sure does splinter!

  9. #9
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    Thanks Steven.

    It seems that the Stanley 45 might be exactly what I need. Wood Wright has a nice video on what the plane can do here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rrv-i03HJs

    It also seems that the Stanley 45 is more versatile than its Veritas counterpart, something I find unusual, because Veritas usually copies and improves the old Stanley designs. I'm not sure why Veritas left off some of those extra features.

    Finally it seems that the Stanley 45 is of the more collectable antique planes out there with high prices for a nearly complete set, subject to cleaning, and even higher prices for one that is mint in its original box (metal or cardboard). A history of the Stanley 45 can be found here: http://http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan6.htm

    When purchasing one of these, is there any particular age or model of the Stanley 45 that I should look for, or any other issues of which I should be concerned?
    Regards,

    Tom

  10. #10
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    On the later models, Stanley added a way to micro-adjust the fence....They also went with a rosewood fence...Older ones, the rods were threaded into the main body. Newer ones were not...They also went with a way to adjust the depth setting with a wheel....instead of a hammer...I have both, and prefer the wheel adjuster...makes things way easier.

    Lot of these will be found without the front knob.....easy enough to replace...look for the models with a bolt holding the knob in place.....

    You do not NEED that entire set(s) of cutters....basic set was just 24.....

    The "Serious Money" would be the Stanley No. 55.......
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  11. #11
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    When purchasing one of these, is there any particular age or model of the Stanley 45 that I should look for, or any other issues of which I should be concerned?
    If you want to be able to switch it up between left hand & right hand use you need to get one with the rods held in the main casting with screws.

    Stanley #45 type 12+.jpg

    The type with the adjustable fence is more desirable. Note the screw indicated by the arrow. Make sure it has that or the fence will not lock.

    This is a type 12 or later. The knob is held on to the fence with a bolt instead of threads in the wood.

    The #45 can be a bit difficult when first learning to use it. A #55 is even more difficult.

    There more information in this post > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?121761 < scroll down to post #11.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  12. #12
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    Thomas, my preference would be the Veritas Small Plow. You will need to add the T&G kit to it. If the cost is a factor - and I have no idea of this - then the Stanley #45 is a definite option … but never the #55! That is a Swiss Army Knife-come-doorstop.

    I had a #45 for a few decades and sold it after the Veritas Combination plane came to stay. Both the Stanley planes are taught and feel a part of the hand. The Small Plow is a delightful plough plane, and it is so much less to set up than a #45. After you are through making T&G joints, you will benefit from owning a dedicated groover. Plus the blades are just so much nicer.

    This is an article I wrote on the T&G accessory: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...SmallPlow.html

    The downside of the Small Plow, unlike the #45, is the absence of nickers for cross grain planing. The Veritas Combination plane has nickers. However, it is a simple matter to scribe lines for walls to overcome this.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #13
    I am with Derek and Patrick Leach on not wanting a 55. The Veritas is the very clear winner there. You may also consider a vintage Record 043. It is a small plane and dead simple to setup and use. It only came with three blades but as it has no micro adjust or special bedding requirements, you can use any straight blade up to 1/2" or so. It is also easy to get some O-1 bar stock and make your own blades. I have one and also the Veritas small plow. The 043 is the one that I reach to the most. I've had problems with both the depth stop and fence shifting on the Veritas when things don't go smoothly (like hitting a small knot). It is the one Veritas tool that I am not entirely thrilled with, but I have not had it very long.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hill View Post
    I am with Derek and Patrick Leach on not wanting a 55. The Veritas is the very clear winner there. You may also consider a vintage Record 043. It is a small plane and dead simple to setup and use. It only came with three blades but as it has no micro adjust or special bedding requirements, you can use any straight blade up to 1/2" or so. It is also easy to get some O-1 bar stock and make your own blades. I have one and also the Veritas small plow. The 043 is the one that I reach to the most. I've had problems with both the depth stop and fence shifting on the Veritas when things don't go smoothly (like hitting a small knot). It is the one Veritas tool that I am not entirely thrilled with, but I have not had it very long.
    Chuck, round knobs can loosen with all planes when they are tightened by fingers. A better method would have been thumb screws. What I have done on all my knobs is add a slot for a screwdriver. Here is an old photo ...



    An alternative is a plastic-faced set of grips (plastic to avoid marring the knurling).

    I also have a Record #043. I use the Veritas Small Plow blades in it. Perfect fit and better steel. Larger selection of sizes as well.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. #15
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    There is a hilarious rant about the Stanley 55 here: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan8.htm with the author calling the plane ultimate punishment for mankind and adding that in 1897, when the Stanley 55 was invented, the inventor, Edmund Schade "devised a torture that knew no bounds betwixt Gods and mortals" Adding that "We should all be so lucky to be chained to a rock and have our livers eaten daily by an organ-hungry raptor than to suffer the agony of this contraption. Even the Chinese would have gladly abandoned their infamous drip, drip, drip of water to the forehead had they been on Stanley's favored nations tradelist. If there can be a ball and chain of planes, this is it, baby. Down in Australia this chunk of metal has been used as a doorstop (no lie). Here in America, it's been used as a woodworking tool. Now, you tell me which nation is more civilized?"

    I'm a fan of buying a tool for specific purposes, and a tool which has limited function often does that function better than multi-function tools, like, well, a Swiss Army Knife. Right now, all I need is a quarter inch groove in stock, and I can plane the panels to fit that quarter inch slot. So a simple plow (plough) plane might be the answer.
    Regards,

    Tom

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