Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Kitchen Cabinet Refinishing - DIYer can't decide on materials

  1. #1

    Kitchen Cabinet Refinishing - DIYer can't decide on materials

    Current kitchen needs a refresh. The state of the cabinets seem to be some maple or maybe alder, stained in a brown/cherry and then given a satin poly. Looks like two of outer cab bodies have veneer. I plan to modernize these to either white or maybe even a gray/blue color, depending how some samples look that I make before I plunge in. Confusing part is what topcoat(s) should I use, given my DIY status. I have a few HVLP guns and experience spraying, although not inside my house. I've read professionals tend to lean to pre-cat, but in my case I don't know if that's the right choice. I may choose to role the cabinet bodies to avoid having to prep up the kitchen, since we still need to use it day in and day out.

    Other options I'm considering are Advance (which I have a lot of experience with and do enjoy), Emerald or Milesi. My concern with Advance is if we pick white, that it may yellow over time. The inside of the lid of white satin I have right now is already yellowing a bit, and it's only a few months old. VOC's is also a concern, my wife is EXTRA sensitive of fumes. I spray in my garage all the time, with both garage doors open and the interior door shut... She claims she can still smell it inside the house.

    So in summary, the question is - should I refinish my kitchen cabinets with a pre-cat lacquer or use paint such as Advance or Emerald.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    60,890
    You have multiple choices; if you need to hand-apply, the BM Advance or SW Emerald Urethane are good choices, although I had good results with SW Proclassic Acrylic white at our previous property. Note that the Advance and Emerald will have some odor due to their nature. If you can spray inplace, that opens up other finishes like Target Coatings EM6500 (plus crosslinker). traditional Pre-Cat lacquer is not an option, IMHO, unless you can deinstall and spray in a proper and safe environment for that kind of work.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    8,178
    If you are going to roll it on then precat is out. Advance rolls on great but takes far too long to dry and cure, especially if you plan to live in there at the same time. Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel dries a lot faster, but ProClassic is even faster, and rolls on really well with a foam roller if you thin it and add some of GF's Extender. I've never used PPG Breakthrough but I've heard great things about it.

    If you are going to spray it then pretty much anything solvent based is out. Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel and ProClassic have very little odor, at least to me. If I had to use the kitchen during the rehab I'd go with ProClassic. To spray either product, however, you need a pressure assisted gun, and some thinning. If you want a product that can be sprayed straight from the can, then I'd look at TC's EM-6000 White, or Lenmar's MegaVar White, or SW's Kem Aqua Plus White, or Milesi if they make a WB white.


    John
    Last edited by John TenEyck; 05-13-2022 at 7:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Columbia MO and Howard County MO
    Posts
    741
    I have done several with brush and roller. As follows; Remove doors, drawers, and hardware, clean everything, sand with 220 and red Scotch Brite, clean, prime with Bin primer, (tinted to your color), paint with Benjamin Moore satin Impervo (oil) or Benjamin Moore Aura (water base). If you have a suitable space, spray the doors and drawer fronts.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  5. #5
    What's weird is that to me, the BW Advance satin I used to re-do all the trim in my house... I feel like it dried super fast. Got to tacky in about 15 minutes, totally dry to touch within 2 hours. I know it takes a while to get fully hardened, but I just refinished 2 pieces of furniture with it and I was able to easily do 2 coats in one day.

    I'm big time leaning on rolling/brushing the cabinet bodies so something self leveling will make life better. I'll spray the drawer and doors in my garage though.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    If you are going to roll it on then precat is out. Advance rolls on great but takes far too long to dry and cure, especially if you plan to live in there at the same time. Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel dries a lot faster, but ProClassic is even faster, and rolls on really well with a foam roller if you thin it and add some of GF's Extender. I've never used PPG Breakthrough but I've heard great things about it.

    If you are going to spray it then pretty much anything solvent based is out. Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel and ProClassic have very little odor, at least to me. If I had to use the kitchen during the rehab I'd go with ProClassic. To spray either product, however, you need a pressure assisted gun, and some thinning. If you want a product that can be sprayed straight from the can, then I'd look at TC's EM-6000 White, or Lenmar's MegaVar White, or SW's Kem Aqua Plus White, or Milesi if they make a WB white.


    John
    Is there any pro''s/con's to the Emerald vs the ProClassic? As long as I can do 2 coats of whatever material in one day (1x morning, 2nd in evening) the dry time isn't a huge deal. Even more so because I may not have time in 1 day to roll all the bodies 2x and spray all the doors 2x.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    60,890
    ProClassic is a 100% acrylic. Emerald Urethane Trim Paint is a step above in durability I believe. ProClassic has been my go-to for many years for trim work as well as for many other situations. I've started using the Emerald Urethane Tim Paint for outdoor stuff, however, and like it...it's good for both inside and outside. Both seem to be self-leveling (I had better luck on that with the ProClassic IMHO) and both spray well with a proper gun/sprayer setup.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    8,178
    You are the first person I've ever seen that said Advance dries super fast. I guess if you put it on thin enough it will do as you observed, but it sure won't if you spray on 3 - 5 mils. It will take 16 hours before you can sand it, at least in my shop at 65-70F and 50% rh.

    If you want fast use Advance. If you want higher durability use Emerald Urethane. It self levels as well as Advance and dries and cures much faster. If you are set on Advance, well, use it.

    John

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    You are the first person I've ever seen that said Advance dries super fast. I guess if you put it on thin enough it will do as you observed, but it sure won't if you spray on 3 - 5 mils. It will take 16 hours before you can sand it, at least in my shop at 65-70F and 50% rh.

    If you want fast use Advance. If you want higher durability use Emerald Urethane. It self levels as well as Advance and dries and cures much faster. If you are set on Advance, well, use it.

    John
    IT's interesting you say Emerald being more durable... I read this a lot on forums and of course the SW rep I talk to says it's better than Advance. I recently watched this video from a guy who did a relatively good long term test comparing many different paints, including more Advance and Emerald.

    Long story short, Advance out performed. I'm not bias to Advance per se, I've never tried Emerald. But I found it weird how poorly the Emerald did in his test. I can't be sure if he's biased or rigged the test or what. I do know that Advance really takes a long time to cure... weeks and weeks for sure. I just painted some furniture for my side business and I brushed up against a piece by mistake after it had dried for a few days... boom, big ol scratch.

    https://youtu.be/X0HMxlMm584

    My plan is to paint a spare cabinet I have up in my bathroom. It's identical to my kitchen cabinets in every way... it's probably a spare body the builder had. I'm going to do 1/2 with Advance, and the other side with Emerald. Will prep and do everything identical and I will let it fully cure for 30 days before going back and testing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    60,890
    "Which" Emerald was in the test? The Emerald Urethane Trim Paint is what John and I have been referring to. "Emerald" is also applied to SW's top tier house paint products and is a regular acrylic for that.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    8,178
    Well that was interesting. Under the conditions he did his testing Advance was very durable, and Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel sucked. However, all of his testing began only after he covered the samples with Crisco for 7 days. He did let the paints cure for 28 days prior to doing that but from my experience that is not nearly long enough to get a full cure on Advance or Emerald Urethane. But clearly Advance cured well enough to resist softening by the Crisco while Emerald Urethane did not. It would have been perhaps more informative had he begun his testing by doing mechanical picking/scratching tests to get a baseline, and then done his thing with the Crisco and repeated the picking/scratching tests. Also, he did no testing to see how well the paints stood up to typical household cleaners like Windex, Fantastic, 409, etc.

    FWIW, I've had Advance over BIN primer chip and scratch off a passage door to my basement two years after I painted it. The primer is still there, but the Advance scratched off when hit with plywood/wood that I carry up/down.

    ProClassic is much harder than either Advance or Emerald Urethane. No surprise there, there's no oil in it. The advantage of the oil modified paints is how well they flow out and their resistance to many chemicals. There's no perfect finish. Pick whatever meets the greatest number of your criteria.

    John

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Well that was interesting. Under the conditions he did his testing Advance was very durable, and Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel sucked. However, all of his testing began only after he covered the samples with Crisco for 7 days. He did let the paints cure for 28 days prior to doing that but from my experience that is not nearly long enough to get a full cure on Advance or Emerald Urethane. But clearly Advance cured well enough to resist softening by the Crisco while Emerald Urethane did not. It would have been perhaps more informative had he begun his testing by doing mechanical picking/scratching tests to get a baseline, and then done his thing with the Crisco and repeated the picking/scratching tests. Also, he did no testing to see how well the paints stood up to typical household cleaners like Windex, Fantastic, 409, etc.

    FWIW, I've had Advance over BIN primer chip and scratch off a passage door to my basement two years after I painted it. The primer is still there, but the Advance scratched off when hit with plywood/wood that I carry up/down.

    ProClassic is much harder than either Advance or Emerald Urethane. No surprise there, there's no oil in it. The advantage of the oil modified paints is how well they flow out and their resistance to many chemicals. There's no perfect finish. Pick whatever meets the greatest number of your criteria.

    John
    Yes would have been good if he did a better baseline on the scratch testing but I felt his test was the best out of any I'd seen on Youtube. Almost every test finds Advance to be a good performer.

    When it comes to my "needs" I think the #1 would be standing up to oils/grease/water vapor as we are pretty messy cookers. #2 would be hardness and standing up to abuse, at least on the lowers. On any given day, my 2yo can be seen opening and SLAMMING doors shut, smiling all the way. I'd want something that touches up nicely, too... I know Advance will, as I just used it yesterday to touch up some trim and doors upstairs. How's proclassic and Emerald do with a brush and feathering in a light touch up?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Bernardino
    Posts
    201
    Jim, are you still using the Wagner Conversion gun. I will be using one to paint a vanity with a water borne acrylic. Will you share your gun setup (needle size and adjustments) as well as paint recipe. Thank you for your help.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    60,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Gallaher View Post
    Jim, are you still using the Wagner Conversion gun. I will be using one to paint a vanity with a water borne acrylic. Will you share your gun setup (needle size and adjustments) as well as paint recipe. Thank you for your help.
    I still own the Wagner gun but it's now dedicated to shellac. I bought a gun with the 3M PPS system from Jeff Jewitt a few years ago as it's much better handling some of the more viscous finishes because of the pressure assist in the cup. But if I recall, on the Wagner gun I used a #3 N/N most of the time and occasionally the #4 with thicker material, but I never liked it for thicker material.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Bernardino
    Posts
    201
    Jim, thank you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •