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Thread: Calculating Kitchen Lumber

  1. #1
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    Calculating Kitchen Lumber

    I've done mostly one-offs for a long time but I'm getting some entire kitchens from folks I've done other things for in the past.

    Wondering if there's a calculator somewhere for the ply and lumber required or do i just figure average needed materials per cabinet, times quantity of cabinetry plus 20%? I only work with rough lumber (outside of the ply which is easy to calculate). Just not sure how that translates into how many board feet of whatever. I'm used to going to the sawmill, picking out lumber by eye (and off course a little extra haha) and calling it a day.
    "The reward of a thing well done is having done it." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  2. #2
    For projects with the complexity of a kitchen, a cutlist is essential. I've been using CutlistPlus for over a decade. Very reasonable cost, and will help you very handily calculate all of the above, condense into a bill of materials, and even generate labels for the parts. Especially handy on the plys. Your first kitchen invoice should very handily cover the token price of this simple, yet highly effective piece of software. Sorry, "app".

    Most basic way to use it is to simply manually enter each part, quantity, dimensions.

    Better yet, learn CAD. I've been using Sketchup, which you may input plugins that allow you to export to CutlistPlus automatically, and even export dxf's of your plys for cnc cutting, if you're so equipped. However, it is an entirely new skill to learn to build cabinets in any piece of software, so you should be asking yourself how many more you intend to allow yourself to be talked into. If you're in business, it is absolutely imperative to be able to draft a kitchen with at least a basic program, better yet, get working on 3D drafting, like Sketchup. It will pay back in spades, and I honestly don't understand how anyone could be in business without, in this day and age, as the clientele are more and more reliant on visual representation, or they move on to someone who is presenting pretty pictures before they commit to investing in a custom built kitchen.

    Unless you are a factory, punching out hundreds of the same layout, there really is no general generic kitchen cutlist to cheat off of.

  3. #3
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    For me, the biggest driver of how much rough lumber to buy to end up with X amount of finished stock is how picky one is (or one's customer is) about grain type and match and color match, and clear or with knots. Your typical mass produced cabinets by someone like Kraftmaid will have straight grain on some parts, cathedral grain on others, and wild grain on still others. If you specify a "natural" finish, meaning no stain or toner, you will also get wide variation in colors as they don't select or sort the lumber for a match. On something like cherry, you'll get sapwood mixed in with heartwood and you're likely to see tight knots as well.

    If you are not going to be fussy about matching grain/color etc, and you're starting with high quality stock, you may get by with 10-20% overage. If you only want straight grain on rails and stiles and face frames, and want good color match and no sapwood (where applicable) you may need 50% over or more.

    So I'd start by understanding (or setting) the customer's expectation of those factors.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  4. #4
    how did old guys work 50 or 60 years in the trade and never own a computer?

  5. #5
    how did old guys work 50 or 60 years in the trade and never own a computer?
    They probably had more hair left on their heads by the time they hit my age.

    Computers are not a cheat.
    It's just that society, in general, today:
    1> has less ability to visualize, what with constant bombardment from blue screens
    2> less understanding of how things go together or the sheer complexity of what many are asking you to do
    3> super-fast delivery expectations.
    4> LED lighting systems must be tastefully planned and routed inconspicuously, so illumination appears almost magically
    5> Integrated trash, spice, cookware, towel and pantry roll-outs are just the tip of the iceberg for additional accessories
    6> Integrated appliances. Check out the Wolf appliance design guide on installing a wall oven or microwave drawer, and how exacting the placement of outlets and spacers for that "like a glove" look

    You certainly can do all of this on paper, but I hope this illustrates that the expectations and complexity of the contemporary consumer are far more advanced than 50-60 years ago, and pencil/paper are no match for these demands at the speed of now.

  6. #6
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    My Dad has a neat system for this. He makes (made) a "story board" for each job. A long strip of masonite divided into 3/4 inch lines with a combination square. Every cabinet occupied a line with all of the verticals represented actual size and all of the horizontals referenced with a code of notes. He can very quickly count up all of the parts, find their sizes, create a cut list for the boxes and face frames, and get the door and drawer sizes. In later years he ordered doors rather than building them. He would order the doors off of the story board, then build the cabinets. Mis-calculations were few and far between. I need to have him walk me through it again. It would a good thing to document.
    Last edited by Maurice Mcmurry; 05-04-2022 at 2:31 PM.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  7. #7
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    Very easy to calculate the area of the faces of cabinets. Just calculate the whole wall at one time, and not individual cabinets. Buying "shorts" is the easy way to save money doing cabinets, but otherwise buy in length increments that will do upper cabinets and then lower cabinets. Cut all you long pieces first to make sure you have the length to work with.

  8. #8
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    All great info. Cutlistplus looks pretty attractive, thanks for that. I've been meaning to play with sketchup for a while now but another skill to learn... it's about that time though. Story stocks are great but not sure how to incorporate an entire kitchen into one (I'm sure it's done, just wouldn't know how).

    I'm pretty picky about stock - building one-offs allows me that latitude but now it's also part of the method of work so I'll plan closer to 50% overage than 20%... I'm sure I'll figure out the average after say the second one.

    As mentioned above, integrated appliances are the only things that give me trepidation.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    how did old guys work 50 or 60 years in the trade and never own a computer?
    Slowly…..Rod

  10. #10
    When the old guy was running the big toronto shop his peak was 36 jobs at once. One of those was all the woodwork for new city Hall in toronto. They charted two boats to go to Burma to get the teak which tells you the size of the job.

    Performance bonds that were as thick as a book and you would lose everything but your underwear if you werent done on time. No computers.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    When the old guy was running the big toronto shop his peak was 36 jobs at once. One of those was all the woodwork for new city Hall in toronto. They charted two boats to go to Burma to get the teak which tells you the size of the job.

    Performance bonds that were as thick as a book and you would lose everything but your underwear if you werent done on time. No computers.
    You mean big projects were done before computers??




    I used a free software recently, DeepNest, to nest some ply. However, it was a pretty lame experience. I order my ply cut thru a CNC shop and they do the nesting for me. I just used DeepNest to give me an estimate.

  12. #12
    Apparently yes.

    What amazes me is the SR71 made way back with a slide rule. There are aliens amongst us.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kananis View Post
    As mentioned above, integrated appliances are the only things that give me trepidation.
    I have found the installation instructions provided by Subzero-Wolf to be very accurate, but can be a bit challenging to wrap your head around at first. - Meaning, they offer so much info for so many different models in each pdf it can be a little challenging to weed through so much info. Just pay close attention to your installation type (inset or overlay), then refer to the design guide for custom panel sizes, and you will do fine. I've worked with a few other brands, but Subzero-Wolf make up the vast majority of built-in appliances I deal with.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    how did old guys work 50 or 60 years in the trade and never own a computer?
    They were just less efficient.

  15. #15
    I have found the installation instructions provided by Subzero-Wolf to be very accurate, but can be a bit challenging to wrap your head around at first. - Meaning, they offer so much info for so many different models in each pdf it can be a little challenging to weed through so much info.
    Exactly.

    All the more reason to get it firmed up in an easily organized and labeled in at least a cut list program.

    Don't want to be misconstrued as a "computer only" advocate.
    I certainly have a healthy respect for my forefathers that got it done with pencil and paper. If it's a one-off for yourself, go right ahead. Probably easier than learning the programming for one.
    It's just a different world now, and if you're thinking of really getting into it for a living, now's the time to dive in and master it. Fortunately, there are routs for the smaller shops that do not require a huge investment either.

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