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Thread: Seeking advice on dining table top

  1. #1

    Seeking advice on dining table top

    Hoping to get some feedback on a fortunate problem that I have:

    I was lucky to be gifted about 300bf of old mahogany. Beautiful stuff. Very dense, much more so than oak. Was stored in a barn for 40-50 years. But ... it was originally cut for flooring. Boards are flatsawn 5.5 in wide (with about 0.5 shiplap on both sides), nearly 1.5 in thick, and 121 in long. Plan is for a 42x120 table (with breadboard ends). While the figure is great, given the small width (about 4.25 in wide when shiplaps are cut and jointed), I will need at least 10 boards to span the 42 in. Given the varied oxidation from board to board, finding 10 across that just flow is a bit of a challenge. Additionally, after jointing/planing, these are dressed out to about 1 3/16 in thick, so I will probably have to glue two together to get a stable top that won't sag. However, if I rip the boards in half (2 in wide), and flip them, the quartersawn grain and color match a lot better. But (1) that is a lot of work and (2) I'm afraid this will look like a workbench repurposed into a dining room table.

    The question: Should I rip and glue like a workbench, or just embrace the variability of the flatsawn grain. Additionally, do you agree that the top should be thicker than 1.25 to prevent sag when spanning a trestle base about 6 feet apart?

    Much appreciated. Thanks

    - Jake

  2. #2
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    IMHO 1.25" is plenty thick for a tabletop. You will (should) have an understructure to support the top so it's not going to sag. So, no, I would not rip and glue that beautiful old wood and make a butcher block top out of it.

    Do the best you can to get a pleasing grain pattern among the boards for the top. Color variations can be dealt with during finishing. Jeff Jewitt had a very good article in FWW several years ago about harmonizing the color in a mahogany tabletop.

    John

  3. #3
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    You don't need top thickness to prevent sag, just build a grid to lay the top on. I guess this slab craze makes people think that only a slab can be used to make a table top. I see no reason to breadboard the ends. Mahogany is super stable. The only mahogany that is more dense than oak is Spanish Mahogany at 53,1 lbs/cubic foot. All other mahoganies are in the 40-42 range. Red oak is 46 and white oak is 48lbs/cubic foot.

  4. #4
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    I have no idea what you should do about the top. But I would sure like to see what old mahogany that’s harder then oak looks like. Are they almost black with a orange glow inside.
    Aj

  5. #5
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    There are plenty of mahogany tables that are centuries old that are 3/4 - 1” thick.

    They are still fine , and yours will be too.

  6. #6
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    Leave it 4.5 and add a apron.

    This is 42x120 at 1.375" thick sapele
    20171222_175129.jpg.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    IMHO 1.25" is plenty thick for a tabletop. You will (should) have an understructure to support the top so it's not going to sag. So, no, I would not rip and glue that beautiful old wood and make a butcher block top out of it.

    Do the best you can to get a pleasing grain pattern among the boards for the top. Color variations can be dealt with during finishing. Jeff Jewitt had a very good article in FWW several years ago about harmonizing the color in a mahogany tabletop.

    John
    This. John nailed it.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  8. #8
    I would not rip. There’s good history on these boards. Let them be different colors. Over time they may even out. They may not. So what? Love the one you’re with.

  9. #9
    I agree with the "do not rip" inputs with the only contra point is you might do it for looks. I built a 10 foot long dining room table last year. The top is cherry and is about 7/8 thick. I left some mill marks on the bottom of the boards to get a little more thickness out of strong 4 quarter boards. It does not have breadboard ends and is staying flat. The ends overhang the frame by 16-18 inches, enough for someone to sit there, and they are flat and do not sag. There are two trestle supports connected by a stretcher with a tusk tenon joint and 2x4s laid flat on the outside. The entire base is construction lumber glued up and stained black with ink.

    I would not be afraid of even a 3/4 top of hardwood but I wanted a little more thickness for appearance. I'm sure you have plenty for strength.

    You might also want to consider "jointing" the edges of the boards with a track saw if you, like me, lack a really long bed jointer. Worked well. Glue joints are tight.

  10. #10
    I use quite a bit of Mahogany, old dense Mahogany is the best material, I was getting Mahogany from a lumber dealer that was sawn 60 years ago that was spectacular, the post CITES stuff is not very desirable.

    I will second what has been previously mentioned, Cannot find a more stable wood than Mahogany, no issue using flat sawn Mahogany, IMO one of the most beautiful of woods. I would try to keep as much of the original width as possible, glue up to most pleasing match. I would think your 6/4 material should net out to 1 1/4+, I will admit that the only bummer is now narrow the material is, 36” wide Mahognay was pretty common.

  11. #11
    Thank you everyone for the help.

    Yes, this mahogany is beautiful. I have 46 boards (boards, not BF), and only a single one has anything resembling a knot. There seems to be four colors in the bunch. About a quarter is the typical dark slightly reddish brown, about half is the typical less dark, still red. And there are two shades of more gray (sap? oxidation? still pretty). This stuff works better than most any other wood I've used. And carves as well as walnut. Very excited to work on the table.

    I'm still hung up on the thickness. I would like to make a traditional mission style trestle table. I forgot the number, but similar to one of the original Stickley's. Seems like the originals had 1.75" tops? I would prefer to not use an apron or a base for the top. 1.25 still an appropriate thickness?

    Thanks

  12. #12
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    You can always double up the table perimeter so it has the beefy look you want.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Elkins View Post
    Thank you everyone for the help.

    Yes, this mahogany is beautiful. I have 46 boards (boards, not BF), and only a single one has anything resembling a knot. There seems to be four colors in the bunch. About a quarter is the typical dark slightly reddish brown, about half is the typical less dark, still red. And there are two shades of more gray (sap? oxidation? still pretty). This stuff works better than most any other wood I've used. And carves as well as walnut. Very excited to work on the table.

    I'm still hung up on the thickness. I would like to make a traditional mission style trestle table. I forgot the number, but similar to one of the original Stickley's. Seems like the originals had 1.75" tops? I would prefer to not use an apron or a base for the top. 1.25 still an appropriate thickness?

    Thanks
    I have an original Stickley table and the top is less than 1".

    Are you sure that it's mahogany? You state that it is more dense than oak, but the hardness of mahogany on the Janka scale is only 800, versus Oak at 1320.

  14. #14
    That Mahogany is going to make a beautiful table. A few years back I wanted to make a dining room table inspired by something we saw in a high-end boutique furniture catalog. Their price was something like $15,000...not including chairs of course. It was a simple scandanavian-type design with a very clean aesthetic. The top was 1 3/4" thick Ash boards with the legs fastened directly to the corners with finger joints. No apron or other support underneath the top. I made our version longer and wider to fit our room, and used 12/4 Ash. The Ash came out to 2.5" thick after planing, and I attached the legs with the finger joints at each corner. I used marine-grade epoxy for all the joinery. The Ash boards for the top were also glued up with epoxy and big Festool Dominos for support and alignment, spaced at 8" intervals. So far it has stayed completely flat and the leg joints haven't budged, despite large changes in seasonal temps and humidity (the piece is about 12 feet away from our wood-burning stove). I have no idea how much my table weighs, but it feels like one could park a car on it. Needless to say, I think if your top is thick enough, you don't need any support underneath.

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